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ST. LOUIS (RNS) Wading into tricky church-state territory, a judge has upheld an independent-minded Catholic church's ownership of its property and its right to craft bylaws that limit the authority of the Roman Catholic Church over its governance. By Tim Townsend.

4 Comments

  1. This is the first good news since the sexual escapades of Catholic clergy was first discovered and exposed. Thank goodness for reason somewhere. Let us broaden this “reformation” throughout the world, put an end, finally, to the outrage of the absolute monarchy of the Vatican. Let the people choose their own clergy, and let those lay people and clergy in each diocese together choose their own bishop. Put an final, complete end to bishops or other clergy owning any church property. It belongs to the people who pay the bills. What the Catholic Church has become, has been for numerous centuries, is downright evil, an ugly distortion of anything you can attribute to Jesus in any extant writings about him–if the “real Jesus” ever existed and wasn’t only a composite of various fictions, good as some of them may be.

  2. Why are you so hateful ‘gilhow’? Where does it come from? If you knew Gods church you would know that social justice and charity comes from the church not from society such as hopsitals. They didn’t exist before Christianity. Now goverment wants to take control of them. Christians aren’t perfect and neither is the church, but what God has taught and set-up is good. Charity and loving ones neighbor even when they are hateful, is our calling. What is yours? To destroy? To silence the golden rule? Evil hates good, darkness despises the light. Those who search uncessingly to this world’s answers, and to men not God, are left fristrated and unfulfilled. The church in this article out for itself and not to do Gods work. God’s work is unselfish. And the church must protect itself when attacked. United we stand devided we fall. It works for governments and all organizations. I hope you can reconsider when enlightened.

  3. trguy said:”Why are you so hateful ‘gilhow’?”
    My question: What gives you the right to ‘judge’ the thoughts and motives of his/her heart? Which part of his statement is ‘hateful’?
    His call for an end to ‘absolute monarchy’? There was NO ‘absolute monarchy’ in the NT churches.

    His call for people choosing their OWN clergy and bishops? May I suggest a remedial history course? That WAS the pattern in the early churches. Early bishops of Rome (note…NOT popes) were often chosen by the people by vote…and acclamation. Other areas did likewise.

    The ‘church or clergy owning church property’? Who pays for it? the Curia….the Bishop….OR…THE PEOPLE? In fact, a major part of the evil ‘enforced celibacy’ of clergy….was to attempt to prevent clergy from passing down ownership of property and position to their offspring.

    His calling of ‘evil’….as what it is…EVIL? I call that….’calling a spade a spade’! IF ‘by their FRUITS ye shall know them’ is valid….then why complain when that very Biblical injunction is actually put into practice?

    “United we stand devided we fall. It works for governments and all organizations.”
    Please show me where Jesus EVER unstructed His followers to emulate ‘governments and all organizations’, will you? He said…

    I tend to agree with him…that one can look long and hard….and NOT see Jesus…reflected even dimly….in the actions and practices of that monolithic entity you assume is ‘Christ’s Church’.

    “Hospitals ‘didn’t exist’ before Christianity? You REALLY need to study up on history, or start using flavored shoe-polish (for foot-in-mouth disease). Hospitals preceded ‘Christianity’ by many centuries; virtually every ancient civilization/religion had them…from India, ancient Greece and Rome, Persia, and, of course, Islam…and THAT within 100 years of the founding of that particular faith.

    “Evil hates good, darkness despises the light.”
    While THAT may be true….the difficulty lies in your (or our) ASSUMPTIONS, and the unstated….and UNPROVEN assumptions inherent in your statement…is that YOUR ORGANIZATION is of necessity ‘LIGHT’…..and thus ‘GOOD’….while anyone who challenges it, and points out shortcomings of it, and calls it back to what existed when it’s alleged ‘Founder’ walked the earth (and within the first century or so)….is ASSUMED by you to thus be EVIL. Your ASSUMPTIONS are simply NOT proven or substantiated.

    “And the church must protect itself when attacked.”
    Let me quote the words of your ‘claimed’ ‘Founder’….
    “Mat_5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”
    Do you see those three words in the middle….RESIST NOT EVIL? Perhaps gilhow’s criticism is very apt, and your organization is NOT as much ‘light’ or ‘good’ as you claim…and perhaps she has STRAYED FAR from the precepts of the ONE we ALL claim to follow?
    Furthermore….
    “Mat 20:25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
    Mat 20:26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
    Mat 20:27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
    Mat 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
    Mat_10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.”

    NO ONE, with a smidgeon of honesty, can forthrightly claim that that hierarchy of pampered old men in the Vatican and elsewhere are the ‘servants’ of anyone….of the ‘people’….or, ultimately, of God. They exist…and have existed…to protect the STRUCTURE…the very structure that gives them their ‘privileged’ lifestyles.

    So…where do THEY emulate the structure ordered by Jesus….rather than the adoption of Imperial Rome’s structure? Jesus said IT WILL NOT BE THAT WAY WITH YOU….but Rome adopted all the attitudes and practices of Imperial Rome, along with the trappings of wealth and power.

    Perhaps it is YOU who hopefully can ‘reconsider’…when YOU have become ‘enlightened’?

    Blessings,