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(RNS) Women's attendance at atheist conferences is down and sexual harassment accusations are rising, which leads to the question: Does the nontheist community have a sexual harassment problem? By Kimberly Winston.

211 Comments

  1. I’ve seen a little of the sexism first hand when viewing female atheist YouTube videos. There’s always some creepy guy saying how cute the woman is and every single time I’ve politely said, “Hey, that’s not really appropriate.” They guy goes mental and just doubles down on dumb.

    I’d say it’s definitely out there but I think it’s something we can work on and if there are people that don’t want to do that then we can just shun them… like the Mormons do. ;)

  2. “stop whining” and “grow a thicker skin.” Wow. Imagine a world with a bunch of people with this kind of attitude.

    Seems atheists arent much better than Catholic priests. I wonder how many pedophiles are lurking in the room.

  3. Melody Hensley

    Women in the atheist movement are not saying that sexual harassment is greater at atheist conferences, but that it should be handled better when it does happen. We want our conferences, which have been largely male dominated, to be safe and welcoming places for women. I believe we are moving in the right direction.

    - Melody Hensley
    Women in Secularism, Organizer

  4. Ashley F. Miller

    Last year TAM had a sexual harassment policy, this year they do not. Thought that was worth noting. Not sure if that impacts the 31% versus 40% or if it was a spiteful reaction after all the criticism DJ has gotten, but, despite their supposed pride at being the first with a policy, they’ve dropped it.

  5. According to atheists, we are nothing more than animals. So if a woman WERE to get molested, and or raped… Wouldnt that just be the behavior of animals? Therefore she would have no legal claim. i mean… If you reduce us to just evolved thinking animals.. law enforcement goes out of the window and we go to a kill or be killed mentality.

    As an aside, religions that condone their “leaders” to do such things cannot be called true.

  6. Women aren’t in danger at these conferences. I’d be much more worried about teenaged boys. Check out this recording, one of several circulating, in which James Randi arranges a sexual tryst with a teenager. http://www.bolenreport.com/feature_articles/Doctor’s-Data-v-Barrett/01 Track 1.mp3

    Randi later claimed this was made for some police investigation or something, yet never produced a single shred of evidence to back up his claims. This is the absolute tip of the iceberg with this community.

  7. Jeff Samuelson

    Jay, I’ve never met or talked to an atheist that considers human beings to be amoral beasts, or advocates a “kill or be killed mentality.” Such contortions only exist in the twisted imagination of demagogues and fundamentalists. As “evolved thinking animals,” humanity has developed systems of ethics and morality to deal with our impulses and thoughts, particularly within communities. I recommend laying off the polemics for a while.

    As for the article, to me it’s mind-bogglingly simple: treat all people with basic dignity and respect, and put policies in place to discourage disruptive & harmful behavior and that provides for remedies when it happens.

  8. krissthesexyatheist

    I don’t play with the other atheist or go to their/our meet ups-n-such, but…obviously, sure it it a problem (that’s why all the whoop-la, right), how big or how small I dunno. What I can see from my outsider view point is that something is being done to remedy that situation. Can that be said for any other organization like, ya know, christian organizations-n-such. Are they taking stances to to give equality and, at least no sexual harassment, to the ladies in their groups (I don’t think so).

    Team Atheist, we need to unite, we need to take care of our peeps and then leave the “divide and conquer” stuffs for “us” to apply to “them”. I don’t want sexism in our camp, that is what we call them out on all the time about their bible, philosophy and about their camp.

    We’re better than that…or at least we should be.

    Kriss

  9. I guess it turns out Athiests are not divinely perfect either – who would have guessed?

  10. Jeff, I would say that anyone who claims to be atheist and holds to any morality is a hypocrit. If we believe in natural selection and the guiding hand of evolution, then we admit that we are creatures of survival and that any moral or ethical standard placed upon us by society is inferior and simply an attempt to restrain our natural urges. Man is a sexual being, and his desire for sex is a natural urge. Women are meant to be the recipient of those urges. It’s really quite simple.

  11. Humanism at it’s core is for the betterment of all mankind. That includes having morality. Sexism should not be tolerated. I have a suspicion that there a few bad apples here. That would apply to any cross-tested group. Let’s hope that the offending groups are brought to light and that the secular movement can move forward with pride.

  12. Hilarious and shocking! Nice article below .

    http://www.christianpost.com/news/study-atheists-have-lowest-retention-rate-compared-to-religious-groups-78029/

  13. Surprise, surprise.

    Who cares if the male of the species wants to mate? Why is that surprising or even considered inappropriate?

    Animals gonna do what animals gonna do. Are you strong enough to get what you want?

  14. Without divine revelation including a moral code from God anything is fair game. Why is sexual harassment or rape wrong? For the one who believes in evolution without a divine author should respect the one who is strongest and able to survive. That means the Survivor of the Fitists is celebrated rather than the weakest protected. Atheists make up their own rules when convenient based on divine law

  15. “Humanism…That includes having morality… Sexism should not be tolerated…”

    That’s funny!

    A nontheist preaching. Specifically preaching morality and “thou shalt not”.

    You’re not the boss of me!

    Honey badger take what he want. Honey badger take what he need.

  16. There’s no such thing as an atheist.Not when the chips are down.Dump any one of them 100 miles off shore and lo and behold they start making deals with God.

  17. All I can say is IF anyone does not believe in a Creator, they must not exist, as they were Created. Therefore they are not. The point is….hold on the phone is ringing, I’ll be right back.

  18. I find it really hard to believe the premise of this story. Everyone knows that feminists are the ugly chicks who never got invited to the prom. #Life101

  19. Nietzsche is dead

    Atheist female attendance down? Good God no, Heaven help us… wait, scratch that.

  20. Rab the Ranter

    Why do people who believe in nothing have to organize?

    What would they discuss?

    Maybe atheism is a religion after all…

  21. I’ve seen the women that attend. Sexual harassment is not in the card unless the man is blind or been prison for a number of decades.

  22. stoptouchingthatmabel

    We all have our own opinions about so many things and the most important is whether you believe in the existence of a supreme being. For me I have one strong opinion and that is I believe robots are stealing my luggage.

  23. Is it me or do these Atheist get-to-gather sound like a swingers party? 5 idiot guys for every 1 ugly broad with a shanker and an unusual tick in her left eye. If you are looking for a real party, try the New Reform Free Will Holiness Muslims, there’s where the chicks can be had!

  24. In the time of economic crisis not many people, especially women, care about philosophical questions regarding Atheism. The questions is more like, “God if you exist, please help me in my crisis”. Nobody would be consulting atheism for help in personal troubles. What’s the point? But you can still call out to God in the time of trouble, yes, even if you have serious doubts about this existence.

    Conferences are there to get you pumped up and energized to help extinguish some of the insecurities about atheism you acquired over the year. When you meet other atheists in these conferences you feel good that you are not the only one unbeliever. The conference gets you going for another year until the battery starts going low and you need to get reenergized at the next confere.

  25. What are the women complaining about? Just say, ‘No’ and I’ll go to the next desirable specimen. It’s only biology after all!

  26. As a lifelong atheist, I cannot imagine anything more boring than attending a conference of atheists talking about something they don’t beleive in.

    I cannot imagine anything more amusing than the recruiting committee.

  27. The crabbiest most opinionated people I’ve encountered have been devout atheists who just have to tell you what they think and if you don’t agree with them you’re an idiot. I avoid these people like the plague. They’re just itching for an argument.

  28. Good to see this being exposed. I have found the sexism intolerable in the atheist community.. i have also experienced bullying and attacks on my womanhood on Facebook from male atheists… There you have men posting about “terrible treatment” of women in the Islamic community as a way of attacking religion, and in the same wall one finds a post calling an Islamic teenage girl a bitch. They show their lack of understanding and a incredible level of disrespect for women. Lots of pictures of women as objects on these pages. Beleive me I am not prude but I am diusguted. They fail to see what a poor image they are giving themselves and atheists movements… Plenty of racism sprinkled in too. Unfortunately it seems atheism has drawn many trashy young men with poor and limited social skills who are plain haters any which way you talk to them. I hope its fair to assume smart polite atheist have a non virtual life and wouldn’t run rude post betraying intelligence 24/7. The typical stats on these bullies making atheism look bad is American male, 21 years of age, living in parents attic, few if any real friends and limited social interactions or connections off of the Internet living the South. They put woman like me off from participating or taking part. Would not attend an event to be bullied in person. No thanks.

  29. How odd. My church does not have to have such policies and I have been there for 20+ years. I have never witnessed anything and I know most there. If I had to worry that my group was going to “work on getting better” at sexual harassment and the aka founder told me to grow a thicker skin that would be hasta la vista for me.

    Leslie

  30. I think attendance was down mainly because so many people opted to go the the Reason Rally in DC. It was a great time even if it poured down rain.

  31. Atheism IS a Mental Disorder

    Atheism asserts that there is no God that exists anywhere in the universe. This is known as an absolute negation. The fatal flaw of the atheist argument is that it is impossible to make an absolute negation, unless someone has knowledge of the entire universe. So, an atheist claims to have knowledge of the entire universe. If the atheist changes his argument and states that he must see God in order to believe in Him, he is really not an atheist, but is unsure and an agnostic. If God were to show Himself, he would believe in Him. Either way, if you choose to believe that there is no God or remain uncertain as to His existence, at the end of your life, you’d better be right!

    Not ONE atheist can give a rationale reason for them to continue to live. If there is nothing better than this life, then there is no use living this life. The irrational argument to make this life better while here constitutes insanity since there is no redeeming benefit despite the horse&&&& they state. The REAL reasons for atheistic beliefs are very easy to figure out. They believe in the concept of moral relativism. That means they can do whatever they want with no consequences because it makes them “feel good”. They do not believe they must conform in anyway that society asks them to. Sure they’ll obey a traffic light because they might lose their narcissistic lifestyle, BUT they believe you should have no right to tell them if they can smoke dope, dress in drag, live on the public dole, get free healthcare while living a hedonistic lifestyle. Atheism is a mental illness just like leftism/Marxism/socialism/fascism.

  32. I simply do not see any problem in an “unwanted advance” as I cannot find any basis for moral behaviour within the framework of atheism. In fact, I do not think that the word “moral” should have a place in the language of atheists, except for establishing that morality does not exist. Atheists should deal with issues, either acceptable or unacceptable in their judgement, in whatever manner they choose.

  33. nemo.nemoque.5

    This should not be a surprise to anyone. How many of the women are lesbians? I suspect that it would be over half. Secondly, if you are an atheist, you have no moral absolutes. Everything, and I mean everything, is up for grabs. The only thing that atheists have in common with one another is their denial of the existence of God. Orgasm is the atheist’s counterpart to a religious experience. They only want to share.

  34. God created Atheists… Without God there would be no Atheists!

    Isn’t it strange that Atheists only seem to have one goal in life? It seems that their only purpose in life is to discredit and disprove God, religion and Christians.

    Atheists as a group, or individuals when they identify themselves as Atheists, speak out on behalf of their Atheistic beliefs (or lack of) but we never hear anything positive. It is almost as if without God, Atheists would evaporate… And yet, there they are???

    So… Do Atheists have any positive goals? Since they worship nothing, believe in nothing, live for nothing, and die for nothing, what are their goals? What are their hopes? Why do we only hear the hatred? They hate Christians, they hate Jëws, they anyone who does not instantly accept their bitter mantra of nothing. Even that is not enough… They want to be sure nobody else has anything either. It would be very refreshing to hear Atheists actually bring something positive to society.

    Athiests claim the image of patriots following the rule of “Separation between church and state” as if they are some sort of noble Constitutionalists, but the fact is there is no such rule in the Constitution. Even if they do believe in such noble causes, who decides it truly is noble, and why do they care since everything they believe in or everything they accomplish will die with them and, like themselves, be gone for eternity? Christians call it HeII.

  35. Why all the complaining?

    Since there is no God, there is no right or wrong. The only rule is for the person to survive or choose to allow others to survive in a way that is an advantage to one or another.

    Might is right. So then, sexism and unwanted advances are just a result. If one can get away with it without being endangered, then it is “Right”.

    If you are an Atheist, do not try to moralize. Well, I guess you can —— but it is sort of hypocritical.

  36. Looking at that picture….. I’m finding it hard to believe these wom….umm…. these gir…err…. these homo sapiens are being sexually propositioned by males of the species.

  37. Sorry, but the fewer the women in any group, the more socially maladapted the men in it are apt to be. Especially around what few women show up. I’ve seen this with my own eyes in many settings, including meetings of atheists. Groups of Christians are generally far more pleasant to be around.

  38. What? Amoral behavior? No respect for another’s human dignity and importance? I’m shocked! Shocked!

  39. Mike Bethany – and why is calling a girl who posts a YouTube video cute wrong or inappropriate? I’m very much pro-women, pro-feminism, etc., but a single compliment about a girl’s looks does not make harassment. While the response back to you may very well have been pure idiocy and inappropriate, your initial comment sounds wrong to begin with. At least the way you described it – it sounds to me like you’re calling anyone who makes random cute complements on the internet a creep. If a girl posts a video and she gets 10 comments about how cute she is, she should learn to take the complements. Sure, it’s not really adding to the discussion, but it’s still a nice complement. And as these people don’t really know her, any other complement would be a lie.

    On the other hand, if the same person posts the same “cute” message repeatedly, or on tons of videos of different women, then that would certainly be creepy creepy creepy! And if the same woman, then definitely harassment.

  40. This article is really illustrative and instructive. Atheists – There is no God. Consequently, there is no Authority. If there is, what is the name of the Supreme Being who has this authority? But since the athiests do not believe that there is a Supreme Being, then only man is the authority, or women, but by whose authority is it the one or the other? Women, apparently, reject the notion that men make the rules, but by whose authority? On what grounds? On what basis should I believe that women are correct? Their word? According to their own tenet, there is no Eternal Truth. How can there be? There is no Supreme Authority. What makes these women act as if there were a truth, and it is theirs? By whose authority? Why does the women’s opinion outweigh the men’s? By whose authority? Why do the women assume that their opinion is correct. By whose authority do they make the claim? Since there is no authority, except that made up by men, why do they assume that women are the authority? Who is to say that the men are incorrect and the women correct? “Humanism?” Who says? There is no Supreme Authority. The weakness of the athiest and skeptics beliefs are exposed with this news story.

    “Oh what a tangled web we weave, when we first set out to deceive.”
    Hoisted on their own petard.

  41. If there is actually touching and asking for sexual favors then that certainly is beyond what should be acceptable. But just hitting on a woman is not sexism at all. If you don’t want to be hit on then join a female skeptic society. Don’t expect males to cancel out millions of years of evolutionary behavior geared towards increasing the population.

  42. This “non-theist” movement represents a disgusting sub-culture no different than religion, and often exhibits a disturbing lack of moral character. As an atheist, I am shocked that people actually associate with such movements, and am wary of them. The vast majority of atheists do not publicly associate with these things.

    Frankly, the atheism industry is a moral, intellectual, and commercial failure. Such organizations do not represent who I am, and I am appalled that they exist at all.

  43. athiesthiestiamnot

    what i find confusing is having a conference about a nonexistant God. to me such meetings only reinforce that He is, just like He said, “I AM”. cant see the air we breathe it must not be real either.duh

  44. First let me say that 1 i apologize and 2 i am a follower of Christ. I am not here to judge rant belittle or Knock your beliefs. I’m sorry to here that your movement is having the problems that you guys are having. But I am here to challenge you. OK :)
    I challenge you that the next time you are alone and feel like your totally connected with yourself, you no like 2 in the morning when you cant sleep and you are contemplating the world. I ask you to say God if your real show me. And see what happens. but i do ask that you have an open mind.

    But now for my RANT. You so called hypocrite Christians that are posting on this subject. You should be ashamed of yourselves for doing the same things that you are of accusing these people of doing. Do you think being ugly and hateful is going to help. I think not…. I say you go look in the mirror ask why i wrote that hate filled garbage and ask for forgiveness. Last i heard Our god preached love compassion, and patience. You where a good example of that weren’t you…..

  45. Wow, given how many ‘people’ here think this somehow demonstrates that atheism requires you to have no moral grounding I can only imagine what their opinion of Catholicism is…

  46. The big aetheist convention is always held on April 1st and who wants to learn what its like to roast in hell in the 110 degree heat of Sin City?

  47. Jeff Samuelson

    I sincerely hope RNS never sees fit to remove this comment thread.

    Let this rich diversity of sanctimony, condescension, ignorance, judgment, superficiality, juvenile insults, hubris, pettiness, and projection – this staggering cesspool of fail – be a lesson to some and a reminder to others of what some people take from within the pages of scripture.

    I’m so very glad not to count myself among you anymore.

  48. Atheist is just another name God hating Sodomites use to hide behind and of course they hate women like all filthy sodomites……
    .
    The Sodomite Agenda

    PLEASE SEE ALSO: THE CONSEQUENCES OF SEXUAL PERVERSION AND SODOMY

    INTRODUCTION

    The research for this web page has left us feeling much violated after having conducted much research on the homosexual/sodomite agenda for the United States of America and the rest of the world. There is a variety of filth out there that is much more wicked than we had ever imagined. The wickedness of man is great in the earth, and every imagination of the thoughts of his heart are only evil continually. Much of the reading that we have done has been revolting to the Christian conscious. The words wicked, vile, and an abomination are not adequate to describe the cesspool and sewer of depravity which mankind has slithered into with Satan. The gathering of some of the statistics for this page required that we read some very vulgar language and statistics that are not fit for Christian ears. In our article “The Consequences of Sexual Perversion And Sodomy” we document the trail of filth and violence left by these reprobates. We will not publish our sources here because to do so would run the risk of violating or offending some young Christian. This is not a topic to research for a Christian that is young in the faith. How it must have pained God to have to record in the pages of Scriptures the deeds of reprobate minds. The focus of this page is to present what God says about sodomy and other sexual perversions. While conducting this research this Scripture came to mind:

  49. Just came across this article. Thought it might be interesting. Then I saw the picture. Are you kidding me?

  50. The concept of atheism is counter to the scientific discoveries that imply a pre-wired need to believe in religion. Whether this is true or not, there is something intrinsically wrong with the need to gather and proselytize a lack of belief in God. I am not a religious person, but I don’t feel the need to try to convert people away from their beliefs. That is impossible and a losing game. So, why? I think it has to do with insecurities and deviations at a deeper level – something that is counter to religious belief, so atheists must disparage religion to justify what they feel. If there is no God, then pedophilia is acceptable. Rape is acceptable. Misogyny is acceptable. Think about it.

  51. Colleen Quinn

    Jeff Samuelson…amen! I’ve never read such insipid drivel! Not only do these people have no idea what it means to be an atheist, they are perfect examples of the kind of people Jesus would have ripped into and shamed for their very un-Christ-like behavior. To assert that humans would have no moral compass without a belief in a deity, is to have no education in anthropology, sociolology, or social psychology. We don’t get our morals from gods, we get them from the need for reciprocity…for trade…you scratch my back I’ll scratch yours…we developed morals ourselves, not from some supreme being for which there isn’t a shred of scientific evidence. And…I attend these atheist conferences…TAM included…and the women there, including myself, are CUTE! :)

  52. Colleen Quinn

    And atheists, most of them including the well known ones like Richard Dawkins do NOT claim to know there is no god or gods, we simply lack a belief in god(s). I would never claim to have such knowledge. To claim to know that which is unknowable flies in the face of how most atheists think. If there was credible evidence for a god or gods, I would entertain the idea. Until then, show me the evidence.

  53. who cares…having respect for one another, including not being a sexist, is not preaching. It is a show of kindness and respect to one another. Many secularist and humanist people do not need the fear of eternal damnation to be good human beings. Many of us simply believe we have this one life to live and being respectful of one another certainly can benefit all in the long run.

  54. Zebulon Harpooner

    You and me baby ain’t nothin’ but mammals
    Let’s do like they do on the Discovery channel.

    The athiest mantra

  55. A lot of you here are athiest bashing in regard to this issue yet priests have been running young men’s lives for ages. And most sexual predators and deviants claim a religion. lol moral code my a$s.

  56. Ohhhhkay, and who gets to decide what “dignity,” “respect,” and “disruptive and harmful behavior” are?

    Every atheist, it would seem, would determine these values for him or herself. But what you think is ok is not necessarily ok with someone else. Usually, the bully finds nothing outrageous at all about his behavior. The victim complains, but who cares? The bully rules! And feels quite comfortable about it.

    It is God’s law that restrains the bully.

    Not man’s.

  57. Freddy the Atheist Hunter

    Great column for Atheists… “Only a fool dismisses God”
    http://boilingthefrogs.wordpress.com/2012/07/09/only-a-fool-dismisses-god/

  58. Some of the comments on here are just the stupidest sh.t I’ve ever read in my entire life. And I’ve read a lot of stupid sh.t, let me tell you.

  59. ChurchSalt.com

    All this talk by atheists on “good” behavior, “bad” behavior and morals is astonishing! When there is no creator or law, all “morality”, if it even exists, is open to private situational interpretation. But deep inside y’all know there is something wrong here, that this behavior breaks some kind of moral law. The simple fact is that we ALL have a basic understanding of God’s law (we are all also aware of our own guilt). But to admit that would be to admit an authority higher than your own, and that you have guilt (even though deep inside you recognize it). It is this rebellion that makes y’all get together to discuss something that “probably doesn’t exist” in the first place. Good luck with that…

  60. JustAnotherGuy

    if you are an atheist, you are just an animal- right. Why would you expect and animal to act like anything other than a degenerate cockroach? Why would an atheist man have any more control than a dog humping a log?

    The smartest people in the history of humanity believed in God, built civilizations, and advanced every science that you use today. What have you done?

    You atheist monkeys are still swinging from trees flinging crap on everything you can’t comprehend. You are animals, self-admittedly, so what exactly is it that you don’t understand? I don’t know why more women don’t sign up to be treated like animals. Muslims and communists seem to like it.

  61. Why do women complain when nature plays out the dictates of evolutionary dynamics? Our earliest ancestors discovered that male dominance and sexual aggression enhanced the likelihood of procreation. Females submitted to this dominance, understanding that strong, aggressive males produced healthier offspring. Even today, one hundred thirty-seven thousand, six hundred and seventeen years later, most females continue to respond favorably … boy, you foolish athiests really know how to paint yourselves into a corner, don’t you!

  62. “Humanism at it’s core is for the betterment of all mankind. ….”

    Yes, i agree. My definition of betterment is removal of all Jews, Blacks, Slavs, and other subhumans. What’s yours? We have the same standards, I hope…because for us, there are none.

    BTW..pleased ta meetcha…hope you guessed my name.

  63. Why would atheists need to meet? There are no rules to follow, no history, not even a support technique. So in essence they would just be meeting to bitch about religions which is what they don’t believe in anyway. Soulless bodies have no need to feel anything but chemical reactions in their brain.

  64. Bill McIntosh

    Re the comment on Atheists being just as bad as Catholic priests-I´d say much worse as atheists have no fear of an after life while priests do (especially if they are abusing kids). The big secret is that there’s LOTS of sexual abuse going down because we no longer can stomach restrictions on sexual pleasure and the internet has become a sewer for fanning the flames of lust-one of the Seven Deadly Sins. God bless you Atheists and when you look up and see the beauty of the stars and nature and feel lonesome ask God to reveal Himself to you if he exists. ASnd if you are ever in despair call on Mary the Mother of Jesus. She can also help you find a spouse-try her under the title of Our Lady of Gudalupe.

  65. John The Aggregator

    Hey, krissthesexyatheist. There’s this
    http://www.flumc.org/district_forms_04/sexual_harassment_policy.pdf

    and this
    https://www.cpg.org/linkservid/3F47EDF3-E9B4-9FAA-4FEDE21B95E573E1/showMeta/0/?label=Model Policies: Preventing Sexual Harassment

    and this
    http://www.gabaptist.org/FAITHNETWORK_USERFILESTORE/filecabinet/ministries/237e6518-ae1d-4db3-844a-2959aa6966fc/church_financial_services/cfs_sexualharassmentpolicy.pdf

    and this
    http://www.pcusa.org/media/uploads/mgb_connect/covenant-of-behavior-policy-and-form.pdf

    and even this, however unlikely
    http://www.rcda.org/Offices/human_resources/PDF/SEXHARAS.pdf

    and this
    http://synodresourcecenter.org/admin/personnel/handbooks/0005/sexual_harassment_policy.html

    and good Lord, even this
    http://www.religiousinstitute.org/initiative/toward-a-sexually-healthy-and-responsible-unitarian-universalist-association

    Dumbass.

  66. @Colleen Quinn-
    “…show me the evidence.”
    Belief in God is “belief”. You can’t find God with a microscope. God is a part of the supernatural, so obviously the rules of natural science, requiring evidence etc., can not apply.
    But consider the Christian tenet that “God is never very far from any one of us.” God is supernatural, but so in part is each of us. Most of us, believers and atheists both, acknowledge the reality of a moral law. For instance, we know we should not commit murder. But we can not produce evidence for this moral law. We can no more produce evidence for the moral law than we can for God. Yet since we do believe in this moral law, why not believe in God also?
    Having said all this, I would note that the mathematical laws of probability, while not constituting scientific evidence in the usual sense, do serve to indicate that the probability of the universe (given the complexity and organizational level that we observe it to have) having an intelligent designer and creator are overwhelming. I would refer you to Sir Fred Hoyle’s work. Discussion of it can be found in “How Did the Universe Begin?”
    by Ralph Epperson

  67. Angela Sandidge

    If God’s existence could be proven scientificaly, there would be no place for faith. God surpasses all human understanding.

  68. @ Jeff Samuelson | Jul 13, 2012 | 2:33pm

    “Jay, I’ve never met or talked to an atheist that considers human beings to be amoral beasts, or advocates a “kill or be killed mentality.” Such contortions only exist in the twisted imagination of demagogues and fundamentalists. As “evolved thinking animals,” humanity has developed systems of ethics and morality to deal with our impulses and thoughts, particularly within communities….”

    How about Josef Stalin who murdered @ 20 million (athiest), Mao Tse Tung who murdered @ 70 million (athiest), Hitler who murdered @ 13 million (fallen away Catholic/athiest), Pol Pot who murdered @2 million (athiest), Fiedel Castro & Che Guvera who murdered thousands (athiests) and Timothy McVeigh who murdered 186 (Agnostic)?

  69. What is wrong with you guys? I don’t think you know what the definition of atheist is. You think we’re lawless and without moral? We share the same virtues as you except we’re not doing it because there is a gun pointed at our head. We do it because we want to do it.

    Also sctbinfl nice article. Except it works against you. People don’t raise their kids atheist. They are free to choose to believe whatever they want. They don’t become brainwashed like you and your religion.

    http://www.christianpost.com/news/study-atheists-have-lowest-retention-rate-compared-to-religious-groups-78029/

  70. bill_no_smart

    hey bill do a google search for this quote and tell me who wrote it:

    “I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.

    Even today I am not ashamed to say that, overpowered by stormy enthusiasm, I fell down on my knees and thanked Heaven from an overflowing heart for granting me the good fortune of being permitted to live at this time. “

  71. bob the builder

    @me_smart
    when you untether from a fixed moral mooring, it is up to the individual’s interpretation of civility – which of course varies from wildly from person to person.

    Atheism is a religion, it is the theocracy of man. When you put man at the highest level, you will always be surprised at just uncivil and devolved they can be.

  72. Reading these comments here, you religious are so funny. Believing in a huge world scale flood that your loving god brought upon the earth and a talking snake, talking donkey… LMAO!

  73. To all those posting the usual “atheists don’t believe in god, therefore they have no morals”, please stop. You are interpreting the whole “survival of the fittest” thing completely wrong. It does not mean taking what you what when you want, or being the biggest and strongest. It means doing what’s best for the species, in most cases the entire species. If that means beating the hell out of the weak in order to keep the gene pool strong (gorillas), then so be it. Or it may be the smaller, weaker males mating with the females while the larger males fight over them (Hercules beetles). But it may also mean being kind and caring to others so that the rest of the species doesn’t see you as an a-hole (humans… usually). Survival of the fittest does not always mean being ruthless. Being an atheist does not force you to throw the rule book out the window, in fact it has had the opposite effect on me. As an atheist I do not believe in an afterlife. This makes me try my best to make this life a good one, and not just for me but for all (as it is their only life as well).

    Oh, and Hitler was not an atheist. And the others were not killing because they were atheists, they were just bad people. Bad people exist on both sides. Take for example the Pope (can’t remember his name) that stated “Thou shalt not kill” only applied to not killing other Christians. His statement allowed the crusades to occur, and the deaths of countless. Point being, there are plenty of “bad-guys” on both sides of the argument. Pointing fingers gets us nowhere.

  74. amplitude jones

    there is aabsolutely no excuse for tolerating communists in the context of FREE AMERICA

  75. The aethists’ faith in ‘”not having any faith at all”‘ makes them more religious than all other faiths combined.

  76. Women put up with a lot. But they will not brook having a man whom they perceive to be beneath them pursuing them. This is to say, women will not brook losers. That is why women are not attracted to the atheist shin-dig. All else is dross. If atheists were “hot”, you could not keep the women away if you tried.

    This reveals that atheism and humanism are simply not sexy. In fact they are trending toward barren in more ways than one. Women, the physical expression of fecundity for our species, are simply not amused on the whole.

  77. I think all Drudge Report commenters are the morally bankrupt individuals. I don’t need to provide proof of this because I have faith that it’s true. I also expect everyone else in the world to believe this without question.

  78. Hugs and Kisses

    You see, the atheists are the biggest bunch of hippocrites on the planet. They get mad anytime anyone mentions Jesus, yet they wander around aimlessly telling anyone and everyone all about their atheism…

    I knew a few who would always annoy EVERYONE with their constant banter on religion.. They were on more of a mission than the Mormons to convert the world to atheism..

    Anyway, they just need to STFU and practice what they believe and quit trying to shove it down everyones throat.

  79. Think Atheists are dumb or crazy? All you have to do is produce your god. After thousands of years of theists trying to do that and failing, how much more can YOU bring to this debate now? Just more talk, it seems. Atheism makes sense until a god is found, and so far, they’re easily made up. Anyone can do it. Just try. Making stuff up is easy. Producing it is convincing. Other real things in life are always going to be more appealing to intelligent people, because those things are real. Reality trumps fantasy, in the big picture.

  80. Hollywood has dictated that the humanist/atheistic woman can be superwoman, but only if she gives blowjobs.

    The Christian Family concept is the only concept that gives women value.

  81. Some of these responses from religious people are so… wrong, on so many levels that it’s quite staggering.

    Just look at this fellow saying Christianity is the only concept that gives women value. The religion that tells women to be silent, and in submission.

    Until recently, you didn’t even let them be priests. Don’t make me laugh.

  82. Godless pagans masquerading as ultra rational intellectuals actually being immoral sex fiends..shocking.

  83. Kaptain Kanada

    How amusing to see all the smarmy, know-it-all atheists fighting one another. The great atheist, Josef Stalin, must be tossing in his grave, as must that other maniac, “Mad” Murray O’Hair. Decent people, on the other hand, are neither surprised nor unhappy about it.
    People with no moral values who congregate always end up doing evil.

  84. I am curious, although I respect your views as a TRUE AMERICAN since you do not believe in a god will you be willing as Atheists to return all of the money that you have received as Holiday pay, such as Christmas, Thanksgiving, Forth of July and basically any Holiday since the term itself lends itself to be religious based
    Do you think that bug guy, I think his name was lennon or something when he sang his song about there being no religion in the sky above, where do you think he is?

    Since, as intelligence people, I would hope that Atheists would accept as an axiom, that we are made up of protons and science has proven that protons last forever, Where do my Protons go?

    By the way, the sexual misconduct is totally unacceptable regardless and there is one solution to the perps, either colt ot smith and wesson, two in the cap will end the crap

  85. Dear Lord, please place these lives in the hands of your people clearing their paths to get them where they need to be to witness Your love. We acknowledge when we do all we can do, You will do what only you can do.
    In Jesus’ name and Love, Amen

  86. Women who believe all men are rapists or who dramatically exaggerate polite advances into harassment claims are sexists. Until they admit they have a problem and institute a female dress code and code of conduct to match any male harassment code it would be better if the pervy self-involved bigots stayed at home and read 50 Shades.

  87. Wow! What a bunch of ignorance being spewed here. It is painfully obvious many of those posting here know nothing about atheism and just spew their bigotry to make them feel superior.

  88. More proof that the athiest worldview is unlivable. You can’t promote ethics when there is no such thing as “morals”. Anyone else see the extreme irony in the nontheist’s complaints of bad behavior? Any ethical, moral, or similar call to good behavior must be borrowed from a theistic worldview though there are very few nontheists who will actually admit this fact. Antony Flew is the latest defector from atheism admitting to its contradictory and unlivable out workings.

  89. obamaisgodawful@hotmail.com

    These activist “atheist” agitators, folks uniting for higher visibility and for no good under a banner of atheism, want attention for their anger, that’s all. They’ve found a common enemy to bring them together to attack with really nothing of value to bring to the table. At the heart of their anger is the unwillingness or inability to follow basic tenets of God’s morality and so they want only their own system of relativistic, fluid morality as a basis of judgment for their misbehaviors and flawed character.

  90. @obamaisgodawful you’re one to talk about a common enemy that brings you together out of anger. Grow up idiot.

  91. obamaisgodawful@hotmail.com

    I’m sticking with civilization and modernity. You feel free to stick with the savagery of atheism, little johnny.

  92. Brian Peterson

    Silly theists commenting here.

    Plenty of atheists live within the bounds of standard morality, and find it extremely advantageous to do so. It’s called rational self-interest.

  93. @obamaisgodawful I’m not quite sure how not believing in one thing can be considered savagery. You may be sticking with civilization but there’s nothing modern about God, such elementary ideas have existed long throughout history. Books such as the bible were written before we knew what atoms or germs were. You can say what you want but there’s nothing modern about your beliefs.

  94. wow, we’re not the ones putting them in cloaks and forbidding them to drive

    women are whiny little brats wherever they are and whatever organization they belong to, and pretty much try to ruin everything men have built

    when it all boils down, women are extremely worthless to society. honestly you think feminism would apply if we were out in the wild? it is an artificial made up concept no more real than religion.

    women will never be strong enough or fast enough to do what men can do. they are nothing more than breeding factories or sex objects so who really cares? i don’t. what is the POINT in caring? logic dictates that we should just move on and ignore what these whinging women have to say.

  95. obamaisgodawful@hotmail.com

    Blake represents the average atheist. I motion that we elect him President for life of TAM.

  96. obamaisgodawful@hotmail.com

    “Plenty of atheists live within the bounds of standard morality, and find it extremely advantageous to do so. It’s called rational self-interest”.

    Plenty, plenty more don’t.

  97. RE @ bill_no_smart | Jul 14, 2012 | 12:32am

    “hey bill do a google search for this quote and tell me who wrote it:”

    Nice try bill_no_smart. Yes, the quotes you gave invoking God’s name were written by Hitler in Mein Kampf. However, you are confusing Hitler’s propaganda which he used to divide those who might politically oppose him, and his well documented actions which were not only secular and wiping out religion in practice, but were also in absolute violation of all Judeo-Christian teachings — does anyone question that his actions were pure evil?

  98. I think I should bring to everyone’s attention that the man who approached the blogger in the elevator asked if she wanted to go back to his room for some coffee. That’s not sexual harassment, that’s called going outside.

  99. A christian apologist, Bill Gothard, observed that people adopt moral codes and religious beliefs that justify their behavior and, over time, reject beliefs that condemn them — an often give lip services to an aspirational world view to which they strive to achieve.

    Without an external Moral Law Giver (without defining any terms or conditions of this morality) all behavior is physical and either pleasurable or not, based on brain chemistry.

    So an aethist — a rational aethist must view “morals” as mere crowd control. The only rational behavior that matters is behavior that either leads to or actually reproduces one’s DNA, or preserves or enhances an ability to reproduce it later.

    Women who both attend or avoid aethist gatherings are correctly voting with their ovaries — their DNA.

    Seriously, what else is there to talk about. What one “doesn’t belive in?” Boring.

  100. Athiests are sad, bitter people with empty lives and chips on their shoulders. I’ll continue to pray for them.

  101. Vice is worshipped, virtue is scorned in the modern society. Lowest common denominator behavior eventually achieves its goal of reducing everyone down to the level of an animal. Secular humanist that worship evolution continue to fail to realize “or deny” there is a problem with this downward spiral in societal behavior. The atheist faction is just more transparent since they embrace this mind set more eagerly than others.

  102. You guys should get used to it. Soon there will be no one left on earth but “nontheists” with absolutely no moral restraints at all.

    Shortly after that, you will all get to explain your “wisdom” to God at the White Throne Judgement. But unfortunately for you, His plan for your future has already been established.

    Darkness is the absence of light. Your whole philosophy is like darkness trying to prove that light does not exist. Foolish.

    “Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.”

  103. 1: If god exists, then there should be evidence other than man-made books.
    2: The hate in these posts are from the religious not the atheists….
    3: Obamaisgawlawfui has it exactly right…
    4: The posts about atheists need a early conference to boost their belief because they loose it through the year is hilarious, the religious have to go back every week……
    5: If “God” is the most intelligent being, why is everything in religion so illogical and confusing? Islam vs Judaism vs Christianity vs Hindu vs …..Maybe man made god, not the other way around….
    6: As for the monkeys throwing shit around as proof of a god made humans, the left “occupy” humans taking a shit on the streets of New York helps your case how exactly?
    7: If anyone was harassed at the meetings, we will address it and do everything we can to stop it. There are idiots in every group…. Just ask the Church of Christ pastor that abused me.

  104. Preacher Dave

    ~The following quote from Brian~

    (Brian Peterson | Jul 14, 2012 | 8:45am

    Silly theists commenting here.

    Plenty of atheists live within the bounds of standard morality, and find it extremely advantageous to do so. It’s called rational self-interest.)

    But if you go to his myspace page one can see many references to evil and satanism. Hmmm… Only 23, full of pride (which caused the angels to fall into darkness) and thinks he knows it all. I suppose it should be of no surprise that he lives in Cali-fornica. His Myspace page may be viewed here: http://www.myspace.com/thehitmanzack

  105. Jacob R – So atheists are both polytheistic and godless? This is definitely the type of sharp reasoning I’d expect from a zealot.

    I’m amused at how much the drudge “Christians” defeat their own cause by spewing nothing but hypocritical vitriol. Sure there are a few comments along the lines of “I pray for you” etc, and while I do find them a bit condescending, they mean well and I don’t have a problem with them. But the others claiming to be religious and spewing vitriol are too full of themselves to see they’re breaking their own rules and beliefs. And I can never respect that. Luckily most Christians aren’t like that. Only the ones on the internet apparently.

  106. Preacher Dave

    ~The following quote from Brian~

    (Brian Peterson | Jul 14, 2012 | 8:45am

    Silly theists commenting here.

    Plenty of atheists live within the bounds of standard morality, and find it extremely advantageous to do so. It’s called rational self-interest.)

    But if you go to his myspace page one can see many references to evil and satanism. Hmmm… Only 23, full of pride (which caused the angels to fall into darkness) and thinks he knows it all. I suppose it should be of no surprise that he lives in Cali-fornica. His Myspace page may be viewed here: myspace (DOT) com/thehitmanzack

  107. 1) imagine you lived in a world where 80% of the adults around you still believed in Santa Claus, and half of those people felt santaism should be incorporated into the law: you might see fit to meet with some of the other disbelievers to discuss the problem.

    2) those who say there is no morality without ‘god’ have it exactly backwards. Atheists can do what is right no matter what they are told, theists must do what they are told no matter what is right.

    3) gods, souls, spirits, ghosts, angels, the afterlife, etc. The common link??? The ILLUSION that mind is separable from body. A simple cognitive error that has caused man to develop thousands of stupid crazy religions. The question no Christian can answer: what is ‘god’?

  108. 1: The hate here is not from the atheists….
    2: If you look at the “religious” situation in the world now, you cannot say that it is God driven, well not if God loves everyone…. maybe man made god not the other way around. Religion in history does seem to be petty, illogical, and man centered.
    3: obamaisgawdawful it right on the money…
    4: we are created in god’s image, ummmm, no, the other way around seems more likely.
    5: No “good thing” that has ever been done by a believer has not also been done by a non-believer, and no “evil thing” that has been done by a non-believer has not also been done by a believer. Thanks for the para-phrase Chris… RIP
    6: You believers cannot even agree on a definition of a “believer”… I mean really, muslims certainly believe, they die for their belief’s. Is their belief stronger than yours?

  109. As an atheist I can only imagine these meetings to be as boring and devoid of intellectual stimulation as the camp meetings I was forced to attend as a child. The only thing I remember worth engaging in as a kid at the Jesus show was girl watching/chasing along with the rest of my girl/boy watching/chasing peers. Are we that much different as adults? Yes, ‘cuz NOW when ya chase grown girlies even WITH basic propriety it’s called sexual harassment. ‘Course in today’s skewed society women get away with slapping ass (it’s happened many times to me), off-color jokes (heard a many from a group of ladies), women’s-only groups, and so on with zero negative ripple- if only the ‘evil’ men were so ‘privileged’.

    That being said I, obviously, do not support asshats being jerks to one another and this includes BOTH men and women BOTH athiest or non.

  110. According to he beliefs of atheism, there is no God, only man. There is no ultimate meaning but what you make of it. Therefore there is no ‘objective’ or intrinsic right or wrong, there is only what you feel or what society (the group) says.

    The end result: – “British biologist Richard Dawkins, the best-selling author of “The God Delusion,” wrote that Watson should “stop whining” and “grow a thicker skin.” Very little compassion or trying to identify with the concerns of women being harassed in atheist environments.

    Rape is not objectively or ultimate wrong, if you are an atheist, because there is no basis or ground for ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ outside the person. People placing themselves under ethical monotheism have God to contend with or answer to.

    Be good to atheist, they’re people too and some of them really good, moral and loving people.

  111. I love atheists.

    So the atheists are struggling with sexual harassment as though there’s something wrong with it. They say, “there are appropriate ways to conduct yourselves.” Really? And, where do you get such an idea? Obviously not from God.

    Maggie Ardiente elevates a standard of behavior with absolutely no foundation for that standard. Maggie obviously isn’t getting her standards for behavior from nature. Can you seriously look at a rock in nature and come away with a moral standard like sexual harassment is wrong? No. I mean monkeys throw feces at each other for crying out loud, you’re not going to get a moral standard of behavior from that. The only place I can see the standard coming from is Maggie herself.

    Maggie’s opinion must therefore be the standard of right and wrong. Though Maggie has a birthday like everyone else somehow there is something special about Maggie that makes her opinion right and everyone else’s opinion wrong. Maggie’s opinion will ascend and rise above those of her fellows; she will sit above the assembly and judge right from wrong. It sounds like Maggie will be like the most high. In the bible this was once tried, it didn’t end well.

    You can claim to be an atheist all day long but when it comes right down to it you cannot live out that belief in the real world. As Maggie has proven, she’s trying to live as a theist.

  112. Cause & Effect. What caused the very first simple living cell to form? Scientists [atheists and believers] in modern labs using all manner of sophisticated processes, equipment and apparatus are unable to replicate the simplest living cell from the 92 natural occurring elements. And yet we are to have “faith” that somehow miraculously it happened millions of years ago due to random sequences of events. That is the biggest fable of all.

  113. Well, so much for the christian stereotype about atheists’ swinging sex lives. According to the Fantasy Atheist model promoted by generations of theologians, godless women turn into whores. Yet real atheist women don’t behave that way at all, and most atheist men face the same sexual frustrations as most men in general.

    In fact, women in general consider most men, the beta males, sexually yucky compared to the minority of bad boys, cads and alpha males whom women find sexually irresistible. A beta male from a christian background who becomes an atheist stays a beta male, despite the propaganda he might have heard from his preacher about all the sexual abandon atheists allegedly enjoy.

  114. alanwillingham

    These fanciful stories about atheists are written in books by people. There is no proof they actually exist just because so many have “faith” that they do after reading these myths. Those who believe atheists exist clearly cling to the hope of something meaningful beyond themselves. This is how silly superstitions continue to survive in the modern world.

  115. If there is no God, then there is no morality, so what is the problem here? Why is there such charges as “sexual harrassment” at a so-called “Atheist Convention”? They should be able to do anything they want with out any kind of reprisal or reprimand. I mean what is the point of being an Atheist anyway if you can’t just do what you want when you want to without consequences.

    The reason is that God does exist. Everyone feels the Spirit of God within them and these types of behavior are offensive and also serve as a warning. As much as the Atheist movement would like to avoid the consequences of their actions, there IS a God of Justice that will reward them according to their actions, before or after they die. They will not be able to escape.

    But there is always hope and the invitation to change and recognize the truth. I know that God lives and just because you don’t see Him everyday does not prove that He does not exist. You can feel good again. You can be free of guilt and shame. You can turn to Him and he will forgive you. You can feel His love and guidance and know that this life is not all there is. We will live again and stand before him. That might be a happy experience or it might not, but it will happen and nothing can stop that.

    http://kellywsmith.com/jesus-christ-true-north.html

  116. If there is no God, then there is no morality, so what is the problem here? Why is there such charges as “sexual harassment” at a so-called “Atheist Convention”? They should be able to do anything they want without any kind of reprisal or reprimand. I mean what is the point of being an Atheist anyway if you can’t just do what you want when you want to without consequences?

    The reason is that God does exist. Everyone feels the Spirit of God within them and these types of behavior are offensive and also serve as a warning. As much as the Atheist movement would like to avoid the consequences of their actions, there IS a God of Justice that will reward them according to their actions, before or after they die. They will not be able to escape.

    But there is always hope and the invitation to change and recognize the truth. I know that God lives and just because you don’t see Him everyday does not prove that He does not exist. You can feel good again. You can be free of guilt and shame. You can turn to Him and he will forgive you. You can feel His love and guidance and know that this life is not all there is. We will live again and stand before him. That might be a happy experience or it might not, but it will happen and nothing can stop that.

    http://kellywsmith.com/jesus-christ-true-north.html

  117. Why should atheists act any differently? There is no higher power to set a higher standard; they believe in themselves. They can establish their own rules of conduct, with no one being able to say they should behave differently.

  118. Since much of religion is based on a strict, understood moral code, and Atheism eschews religion, they are free to pretty much do what they want, right?

  119. Born Again Bob

    Women carry our children and should be appreciated for that…and that alone.

    Jesus saves!

  120. How can there be sexual harassment? Logic would dictate that when a gathering of biological determinist comes together to exhibit their logic skills; the females and non-alpha males should immediately begin mounting behaviors when the alpha males appeared parading their large frontal lobes. I believe that is what is commanded of them in their holy book by Darwin.

  121. Judging by the appearance of many atheists, how do you know who’s male and who’s female? Perhaps the sexual harassment policy was lifted because attendees will be required to expose themselves to the organizers.

  122. Working in my kitchen the other day I opened the dishwasher, which had just finished, and was surprised to find a Tupperware container with its lid on tight. Somehow in all the ruckus inside the dishwasher, the lid had managed to find the correct container and latched on tight, because I know neither I nor my kids had put the lid on before putting it in the dishwasher. Come to think of it, maybe I shouldn’t be shocked–my dishwasher has done this before.

  123. So what you are saying is, the men who reject a spiritual existence in favor of a materialistic existence are seeking to use their natural physical advantages to engage in sexual activity with women who also claim to be as materialistic and who knowingly gather with men admittedly concerned fully with satisfying their own physical urges regardless of the external rules of religion or state? That’s weird. I, for one, am shocked

  124. What do you expect from a bunch of people who claim that they don’t have to answer for their actions to a higher power that does not exist?

    Atheism is just an excuse for people to do whatever they want to you with impunity.

  125. StageCoachDriver

    I’m sure the ladies who feel harassed would find a friendlier environment at Rick Warren’s Saddleback Church over in Lake Forest, CA.

  126. I’m not amazed that a site called “religiousnews.com” has this level of bias, but cmon people.. let’s stop generalizing so much. All members of a group are not a certain way, simply because a few individuals are. Please stop this attitude of marginalization. It only makes you look desperate to wag your finger and sound benevolent.

    I’m technically an athiest, but even I know that we’re all sinners. It’s wrong to judge individuals based on a group affiliation. Especially when you don’t know them at all.

    Just sayin.

  127. This constant assertion that morality can only be practiced by religious people is patently false and extremely arrogant. I have seen far more immorality among the religious than non-religious.

  128. @Bill, Those guys didn’t murder millions because they were atheists. The murdered millions because they were homicidal dictators. Of course Hitler was a Christian, but you choose to make an excuse for that.

  129. It is my observation that a lot of “atheists” strongly subscribe to a belief system which says “there is no God”, where the “God” concept is largely left undefined. In the article, the word nontheist is used extensively. Buddhists are nontheists, as are wiccans, and some other spiritual groups. The concept of a “creator god” does not exist in Buddhism, and in fact, Buddhism rejects such a concept. Would Buddhists be welcome at TAM? After all, Buddhism teaches that the law of cause and effect works on the spiritual plane as much as on the material plane. More so, that the spiritual influences, and even creates, the material. A lot of self proclaimed atheists I have had interactions with are quite dogmatic. And their beliefs, convictions and actions are more akin to those of fanatical and militant religious zealots than to those of a tolerant, pragmatic and open minded people they often imagine themselves to be. _/_

  130. Wow theists being judgmental about millions of people they’ve never met. Who’d a thunk it.

  131. @DJG “For instance, we know we should not commit murder. But we can not produce evidence for this moral law. We can no more produce evidence for the moral law than we can for God. Yet since we do believe in this moral law, why not believe in God also?” This is a false dichotomy..a common logical fallacy committed by Christians. There is an enormous amount of scientific literature on how evolution can favor genes that lead to cooperation, altruism, and morality.

  132. @DJG “But consider the Christian tenet that “God is never very far from any one of us.” God is supernatural, but so in part is each of us. Most of us, believers and atheists both, acknowledge the reality of a moral law. For instance, we know we should not commit murder. But we can not produce evidence for this moral law. We can no more produce evidence for the moral law than we can for God. Yet since we do believe in this moral law, why not believe in God also?” This is simply not accurate. There is an enormous amount of scientific literature on how evolution can favor genes that led to cooperation, altruism, and morality.

  133. Many atheists are harshly critical of Biblical standards of morality, insisting that there is a morality that somehow can be invoked apart from Biblical sources or otherwise based on religion. They argue that standards of morality can be developed simply by the application of common sense regard for the good of all or by other vague rationalizations.

    The Bible’s standards for sexual morality are not held in high regard by many atheists. Thus is is no surprise that there are so many instances of sexually aggressive behavior by male atheists toward females, whether atheist or believers.

  134. Do you really believe that morality originates from some unseen, unproven god? Why do you have such little faith in the human race? Religion destroys. It destroyed the WTC towers. It destroyed countless cultures in North, Central and South America. It destroyed six million Jews (Hitler was a devout Christian and thought he was doing God’s work). It causes people to think they will have some sort of “do over” or afterlife paradise if they act the right way. I used to believe in a Christian God. I also used to believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. Then I grew up. Now I believe in us, and only us. If you are a devout follower, and believe your life serves some unseen purpose, I probably believe in you more than you believe in yourself. Forget fairy tales. Believe in yourself. Believe in us.

  135. Well, looking at some of the “greatest men” atheism has produced..Stalin, Mao, Pol pot…this is a drop in the bucket…. do you athiests really want go all the way down that “man is his own God” road… Jesus is waiting for you if you’ll turn to Him.

  136. @Colleen Quinn : ” Scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours”? This is the basis for Atheist morality according to you, really? For trade? To use each other? Help others only if it profits oneself?

    Do you think by making such statements your are furthering the Atheist cause? A group of people who just use each other? Is that your idea society?

    I like the other person’s statement about “rational self interest”. First, a person can rationalize just about anything, that is how all manor of horrific acts take place. And to do it in self interest, that is even worse.

    None of these statements support the greatest acts of humankind, the great acts of selflessness, self sacrifice and compassion that mankind aspire to. But please, feel free to provide better evidence.

  137. I always find it amusing when a group of people who have no “objective” basis for morality get offended when someone doesn’t conduct themselves morally. You guys (and gals) want a Godless world but you want the morality that He provides. BTW, that’s because, despite your objections, you were created in His image and can’t help but exhibit His attributes to a certain extent. Read Romans 1:18-32 to get a better idea of your predicament.

  138. Well we homo sapiens sapiens are all just nothing more than smart animals. I have some chickens and I’d say the rooster is definitely guilty of sexual harassment, but he’s just doing what comes natural.

  139. Is anyone surprised that the same group of people who reject an absolute standard of morality from a Supreme Being act like swine?

    Moral relativism is absurd (unless there was a time when racism was ok — anyone want to stand up for that?)… morality by democracy is absurd (unless slavery was moral during the times when it was popular — anyone want to stand up for that?).

    Face it: Atheists are the most irrational people on the planet.

  140. I’ve been watching EllenBeth Wachs, a humanist/atheist/whatever, who creates a bunch of publicity stunts and I’ve first hand seen some remarks by her crowd about her personal appearance. Seems like atheist men are those hormone raging men

  141. I do not believe in Santa were can i go to find others like me so that we can put up billboards and have meetings to let others know about Santa.
    One thing for sure i am not going out of my way to tell people god is not real because if he is he is not going to be happy with me. Why take the risk when no gain can be had telling others god is not real?

  142. I didn’t read all the comments, but imagine how Dawkins is going to react when he hears this guy called him along the lines of a Catholic priest. LOL

  143. Quote: “Atheism asserts that there is no God that exists anywhere in the universe. This is known as an absolute negation. The fatal flaw of the atheist argument is that it is impossible to make an absolute negation, unless someone has knowledge of the entire universe.”

    False dichotomy. Straw man. Your fatal flaw is assuming you have all the facts..therefore, you just have fallen failure to your own false logic. The opposite of your “absolute negation” would be that you assume you have all the facts. Especially concerning the entire “atheist argument”, which you have unwittingly assumed. Thanks for playing!

    Please allow logic to enter your argument.

  144. From a lesbian point of view, I find the sexualization of these gathering most repulsive. On two occasions, I have been propositioned by some of the lower-ranking members of one board who seems to feel that atheism is really hedonism. I was so disgusted that I vowed to only attend female-only events.

  145. What is an Agnostic Dislexic Insomniac? One who lies awake at night and wonders if there is a dog.

    Anyone who wastes an hour of their precious life reading all these comments is an idiot! Oh wait…never mind.

  146. I’ve been to Vegas hair shows where 3 times this many people showed up. TAM isn’t taking over the world any time soon. And if they want me to buy that they’re all getting hit on, I want to see some better pictures…

  147. “Plenty, plenty more don’t.”

    Same goes for those claiming to be Christian. So what? Outcomes matter more than god belief. Time to accept that.

  148. “Plenty, plenty more don’t.”

    Same could be said for Christians. Outcomes matter. God belief doesn’t. Time to accept that and move on.

  149. Stupid Atheists

    Atheists are a bunch of self righteous rebels who have taken themselves way too seriously.

    They were the kids who always had the kick me sign on their backs in school. That is because they were just too dumb to figure out how dumb they were.

    So just kick their Azx if they start to blabber on about their religion. They are used to getting their azc kicked since they are mostly pencil necked whimps with no physical abilities. Just kick their azc.

    The only way these dweebs can get a girl is rape them. Plus their women are horrendously ugly and I mean UGLY@! Look at the pic above for examples of their looks.

  150. Atheists are some of the worst people on the planet. They have no morals and act like stupid animals. I swear that they are monkeys who attempt to talk smart. But in the end, they are just monkeys playing with their poop and their sex organs.

    Most of them are also gay. It seems that fagg9try (playing in poop) and atheism goes hand in rectum… LOL. They fist each others big brown eye and shag their shaggy man bushes with pimpled faces. They love to play rectal poop games.

    Now we should just take all of them and just get rid of them anyway we can. It would be hillarious watching them rum in fear while praying to themselves! HAHA Their time is coming
    !

  151. RectalAtheism

    Atheists have meetings so that they can find a rectum to pack the poop into. They love to play with poop, and most are gayer than a 3 ricked elton urinal. LMFAO.

    Otherwise, I have no idea why these gaggots meet other than to pack fudge and play hide their salomi into a poop whole…. It’s just another way for them to spread their aids I bet.

    Anyway, they should be chased out of every town, city, state and country in the world… Simply because they are whimps who typically need a good axzx whomping. That would actually cure their big mouthed talk. And that’s all they are, big mouthed and big rectumed boogering whimps in need of a severe whomping.

  152. You and me baby ain’t nothing but mammals
    So let’s do it like they do on the discover channel
    Do it again now
    You and me baby ain’t nothing but mammals
    So let’s do it like they do on the discover channel
    Getting horny now

    The Bloodhound Gang

  153. @obamaisgodawful@hotmail.com

    Proof please, and plenty of atheists are not moral, while also proving that the majority of christians are. From my experience with christians, most believe without thought, they go to church out of tradition, and apply none of Jesus’ teachings of love, compassion, and empathy for others.

    While I have experienced more atheists that take a humanist approach, and offer more empathy and compassion for others.

    Take a look at the population of prisoners who are atheists vs theists.

  154. I looked at picture of the 4 women sitting at the table. I know it might sound funny, but I don’t think any those women could’ve been sexual harrassed.

  155. There’s more to this story. Try Googling Rebecca Watson & Dawkins, Rebecca Watson & Elevator Guy, Rebecca Watson & Paula Kirby, Rebecca Watson & Ben Radford.

    Rebecca Watson – who kicked off this latest spat with DJ Grothe & TAM is a divisive self-publicist who’s doing a lot of harm to the Skeptic movement. Then again, perhaps they deserve it for the absurd pomposity of calling themselves a ‘movement’.

  156. Anonymous Atheist Guy

    Atheism is not a “moral sickness” or “a religion of animals,” Atheism is strictly defined as the philosophy that does not acknowledge the existence of any deity, whereas agnosticism believes in a higher power but not any one that has been previously defined or described.

    Just because somebody is atheist / agnostic, that doesn’t make them a beast and that doesn’t make their life / anybody’s life meaningless. Not believing in God simply means that you believe that the end of your life is the end. The reason, then, to keep living and be a good person is actually pretty obvious – we are good people and we treat others well because we are all human and humans, as well as all other animals, deserved to be treated well. It is extremely self-righteous, narrow-minded and ignorant for a theist to call and atheist “narcissistic and violent.” The best thing is, now that we do not believe in a God or an afterlife, when we die, we won’t be disappointed, because we weren’t expecting an afterlife anyways.

    Even though evolution (which is almost beyond doubt irrefutable) says that we are all animals (which we are) and describes a “survival-of-the-fittest” mentality, we, as humans, escaped that long ago – no longer do we have to struggle to survive and pass down genes. If we were giraffes, then yes, the genes for longer necks would be passed down due to the survival-of-the-fittest. But, because our genes and our survival are not related to each other anymore, due to our increased comfort and increased medicine, availability of food and shelter, etc, has grown, we are not really a part of evolution anymore (we are still evolving, but the random passing-down of genes is unimportant, for practical purposes, anymore).

    Yes, we are animals, and yes, as animals we all crave the same natural impulses, we should be expected to “condone rape and sexual violence.” However, much like I described in the previous paragraph, with the advent of civilized society, we have added a set of morals and restrictions on our actions and thoughts, and most people, regardless of their religious backgrounds, would all agree that it is wrong to kill, rape, murder, steal, among other things.
    This Atheist conference seems like there are just a few “bad apples” that set a bad picture for all Atheists. Labeling all Atheists as sexist pigs by the actions of those at this meeting is like labeling all Christians as gay-hating fundamentalists by the actions of the Westboro Baptist Church.

  157. What a shock – athiests are a bunch of creepy, depraved sexual deviants who harrass each other and bow to every physical impulse. Who could have seen this coming?

  158. Any congregation of True Believers is going to have a significant component of ostreperous nuts. In addition to smug, holier-than-thou humanists, nontheism tends to attract such undesirables as characterless leftists and liberoids out trying to gallup their varous sexual proclivities..
    One of the chief benefits of religious scepticism is not having to go to church. So, why toss it away by courting boredom and likely disgust at an anti church??

  159. I’ve really enjoyed the religious pseudo-intellectuals claims of what the Atheist “really” is. Hey, clowns…..There is a difference in Knowledge and Belief. Most Atheists aren’t claiming knowledge, only Belief. Society has determined what morals are. We atheists only follow society’s code. The same as you do. Tell you what, theists. If we have a major food and water shortage, I’d love to see how “moral” you clowns would actually be. We are animals. Get over it.

  160. Eh. Men evolved to be sexist, so they are only doing what comes natural. So why all the hullabaloo?

  161. WTH! Since when does secularism lead to suffering!? Since when does a society based on the will of the Lords of the Flies predate on the weak?

    News flash ladies, the animal kingdom contains no good or evil, it has predator and it has prey, and you’re either one or the other. And logic dictates that if you’re bigger and stronger then your opponent you can take what you want!

    Only religion and/or inherent kindness will cause the Lion to defend the Jackal from the hyenas. Short of those, the Jackal like the rest of us, is on their own.

  162. It is comical if not disgusting to see the hatred being displayed at non-believers. Even the article itself is laughable. Women may be dropping out of the ranks. It doesn’t have any factual proof, it says, may and then it says it is probably because yada yada. So a theory based on conjecture becomes a news story. Then there are the commenters, some saying because they are there, there must be a creator, or others saying there are no such things as atheist, and even the ones that claim if you don’t believe in God you must worship the devil or evil having no moral values. It is all a bit strange that in a world of billions of people living under a sky with trillions of stars the supposed enlightened ones say it can be this way or that. All the choices come down to two. Believe what I believe or you are wrong. Yes, very strange and judgmental, but wait, believers are not allowed to be judgmental. Hmmm, very strange. How about, I don’t care if you want to believe in virgin mothers or people rising from the dead and that I was so evil at birth I owe my existence to a guy that died 2000 years ago and will burn in a pit of fire for all eternity if I don’t let some fellow(women are not allowed) to sprinkle some water on me and chant a few chants. Hmmmm, strange. And how is it that atheist are claimed in this article to be evil toward women when women have a subservient place in religion and unspeakable evils have been excised against women and children by reverends, pastors and priests all which were allowed for centuries? Now I was just sitting here minding my own business when I read an article saying because I don’t believe in someone else’s God I am a pervert. Yes, still very strange for the godliest of us all to be so hateful, no, come to think of it, it is just par for the course.

  163. It appears you religious folk have not idea what it means to be an atheist. Most people think that atheist do not believe in a christian god. Atheist don’t believe in any god. This misunderstanding about atheist, along with the dim witted idea that atheist are less morale is just silly.

    @obamaisgodawful “Plenty, plenty more don’t.”

    This is absolutely incorrect. The bulk of atheist are morale, good people, who try to do right by their fellow man as are most people you will meet in everyday life. However Religion is not a factor in determining who will kill, steal, or hurt you. Just the same as a lack of religion in no way is a determining factor.

  164. A man is rational only to the extent that the premise that governs his reasoning is true. Otherwise, he is processing the unconscious and all his reasoning is rationalization of emotions. One shouldn’t be surprised to find the preponderance of those rooted in sexuality,hence the need for a pure heart. Good luck with that out there in Vegas.

  165. If the picture is any indicator of the females in this group I totally understand why they are getting hit on (eyeroll).

  166. whether religious or not, constant complaining will repel people from your fellowship. I don’t think this is a feminist problem as much as so many atheists seem to just be lacking in the common courtesy and kindness department. Richard Dawkins, encourages his fellow atheists to make fun of theists and disrespect them. This will come back to bite the atheist community since many women are not stupid and can see that living with bitterness is not a healthy way to live.

  167. Is anyone actually surprised about the creepy guys in attendance? I mean, here is a place that has several hundred chicks under one roof, and none of them has a moral compass. (Of course, God knows what they look like….!)

  168. The “pervert” factor is pervasive among the atheists. It is the leading factor in why they are atheists. They do not want to be judged for their behavior.

  169. Atheists have no morals. They claim to, but they really don’t. They deny God so they can be immoral “guilt-free.” Anyone who knows one of these poor, misguided wretches knows how miserable they are inside.
    All we can do is pray they see the light someday, and don’t let kids near them. That is a bad influence. Unfortunate, but they made their choice.

  170. There’s no shortage of predictable responses here, but it strikes me that this latest kerfuffle is very much the kind of problem any kind of religious gathering has, and underscores that Atheism is indeed a kind of religion, albeit one as full of embarrassing doctrinal divisions, heresies, and dissension as any other. That the uneasy alliance between the sexual libertines and the feminists in this particular religion is showing obvious signs of strain shouldn’t be any surprise either.

    The paradoxical combination of perversion and prudery one constantly sees in Atheism has always been one of the factors that discredits it in my eyes. Atheists are always talking about Christianity in particular (and Judaism and Islam only on occasion) being too sexually restrictive, and yet Atheists are forever slapping restrictions on others even while insisting they can’t be held to such “narrow” moral standards themselves.

    Just as some Christian churches have Christian youth camps, Atheists have lately started having Atheist youth camps. Look at a typical brochure from each, and you’ll notice a lot of striking similarities in the rules and restrictions, particularly concerning sex. The people running these camps are the same ones pushing for all kinds of sexually libertine indoctrination (“Let’s just assume they’re going to do it anyway, and then teach them all the finer points about how to do it, and then pass out the condoms and hope for the best!”) under the guise of “education” in our government schools, but apparently they don’t want *their* kids having sex at *their* camp grounds. What’s (allegedly) all right for Atheist grown-ups isn’t permissible for the kids at their camps, oh no!

    Still, what else is one to expect from Atheists? They’re always talking about morality as if it were a kind of invention, something one can make up on one’s own, and yet expecting us to follow whichever version of it they happen to be pushing today as if it were an actual divine axiom, handed down from a deity! Thus these supposed Atheists make idols of society, of government, of peer pressure, of human collectives *and* individuals, and then are shocked to discover that other Atheists prefer to follow other idols and moralities at enmity with their own. If one Atheist’s “social contract” or government or “gang” is opposed to pedophilia, it comes as a shock only to him that another Atheist who wants to have sex with prepubescent children has simply made up his own morality, deciding that having sex with prepubescents is fine as long as you talk them into it first, and the government and society that have outlawed pedophilia are to be evaded and overthrown as oppressors rather than obeyed.

    Atheists can always claim they have morality, and this is true, but what they don’t tell you is that all of it inevitably boils down to “whatever I want to do and can get away with doing is what’s right, and whatever I don’t want others to do and can keep them from getting away with doing is what’s wrong” sooner or later. All else is just lip service and rationalization. In this particular case, if the Atheist men can get away with propositioning and even maybe harassing the Atheist feminists sexually, they’ll do it, and if the Atheist feminists can bring the wrath of society and the law and any other temporal deity of theirs down on any man who so much as looks at them in a way that makes them uncomfortable, they’ll do that. Neither of these Atheist sects holds to any other doctrine, whatever they pretend, and neither is making a very persuasive case to the rest of us that we should follow their silly man-made rules or have any respect for their foolish beliefs. Science and reason are powerful tools for discerning certain natural truths, but are completely useless for discerning the greater Truth of supernatural reality, which comes from God alone.

  171. From the looks of those four women in that picture, God is playing a joke on atheist and giving them the bottom of the bottom of the barrell in women to choose form.

  172. Atheists are completely right that there is no old guy with a white beard sitting on a throne somewhere, directing the heavens. Most mainstream religions are primitive attempts to understand Reality and full of superstition and myth. But that doesn’t mean that the physical world is all there is or that human beings are just intelligent animals that live and die without any meaning. The existence of Intelligent life is a violation of the laws of thermodynamics. You cannot get something out of nothing. Laws of Morality and correct behavior were given to human beings to help us not destroy ourselves and to help evolve our consciousness into higher and higher forms. Sexual harassment happens when a human being is addicted to the animal consciousness and doesn’t understand the deeper purpose to life, to grow towards greater power of love. It’s one thing to reject primitive religion, but don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. Read Autobiography of a Yogi for a start.

  173. No atheist has ever been able to refute anything on this line…give it a try.

    http://napoleonlive.info/judas-the-galilean/

  174. No atheist has ever been able to refute anything on this line…give it a try.

    http://napoleonliveinfo/judas-the-galilean/

  175. “Plenty, plenty more don’t.”

    Derp.

    If more people believe X than Y, that makes X true. Because everyone believed the Sun revolved around the Earth at one time, and therefore, that made it true.

    The “logic” of belief.

  176. I think it’s fair to say most atheists AND most religious people try to lead good lives and not harm others. It’s interesting to me that a lot of commenters here (and elsewhere) link atheism with political liberalism, and yet are jumping on the bandwagon to say that atheists have no morals concerning treatment of women. If that’s where you’re going, I’d remind you that liberals are generally the ones pushing for things like the Lily Ledbetter Act and greater access to legal remedies for sexual harassment. So if we atheists are also secular liberals, we tend to be more “pro-woman” than “anti-woman.” I would also remind you that the Bible is hardly pro-woman. Most of the stories in the Old Testament portray women as chattel or dutiful wives, and most of the more independent women are portrayed as temptresses who lead a man to ruin (see Eve, Jezebel, Bathsheba, Delilah, and Herod’s wife and stepdaughter, just to name a few). In the New Testament, Paul clearly has little respect for women as equals to men, evidenced by his letters to the Corinthians and to Timothy, among other places. I am morally opposed to sexual harassment and rape because I find that kind of behavior to another human repugnant, not because of something God commanded (there’s little criticism of rape and no criticism of harassment in the Bible). As long as you’re trying to be good to others, what difference does it make whether you get your morals from a holy book or from introspection and common sense?

  177. Let’s see: in one hand you have purely anecdotal evidence of sexual harassment at ONE athiest convention; In the other hand are THOUSANDS of civil suits against the catholic church for sexual abuse, with millions paid out to victims.

    I’ll take the lesser of two evils, thank you.

  178. I bet $100 they spend most of their time talking against God and Christians. People don’t care about things they don’t believe in. Atheists care to the point of hate-filled obsession.

  179. “Plenty of atheists live within the bounds of standard morality,”

    Ironically, the same standard of morality that shaped all Western culture, which was set in stone by God on Sinai and brought down by Moses. =D

  180. It was proven by Dr. Rajit Sandar (U of Alberta 2009) that Atheists are more than 4x as likely than faith believers to be unethical in one or more areas of their lives. Not a surprise at all.

  181. Atheists (and humanists, in particular) need to just go away.

    In the most successfully free nation ever to exist, we must remember the fundamental philosophy that GUARNATEES that freedom – that individual rights come from our Creator.

    As soon as you abandon that safeguard, liberty exists only at the whim of the government (humans, hence the enmity of humanists and atheists to true liberty).

    JUST. GO. AWAY.

    I won’t even say “Please.”

  182. The women are finding out that atheist is just another word for God hating homosexuals…

  183. Atheists would make miserable husbands and fathers, and only marginally better boy friends. Kind of like libertarians, another variant of dateless troll.

  184. jimmy not that jimmy

    Interesting to hear athiests invoking morality. It requires, after all, a reference and an authority. Unless of course “bill’s morality from down the street” works for you.

  185. It is a shame that these women are enduring this, but frankly, it is the logical outcome of the radical atheist movement, which has yet to come up with a moral system of their own. Most atheists abide by the morality of the culture that they inhabit, not because they have reasoned from first principles and some how reached conclusions remarkable similarity to the moral system of their homeland, but, lacking any moral system of their own they latch on like leeches to the moral system of their societal host

    Not that this is a bad thing; in practice, this tends to work out as the dominant local moral system minus the proscribed behavior in which the individual really wants to engage, which is usually something involving sex or money. My guess is these men are simply attempting to spread their genetic material, in accordance with the law of survival of the fittest. How can these women, rational and living according to the dictates of science and rational laws, refuse them? After all, science leads
    ineluctably toward certain moral conclusions – like how the weaker succumb to the stronger, right?

    If we take Michel Onfrey, the atheist philosopher, at face value, “Survival of the fittest” is not only scientific but moral – who cares if a few women are “inconvienced” with harrassment when it is actually a moral thing to put women into sexual slavery simply because they are the losers in a Darwinian scheme of life? After all, what is the abject misery of one woman who is bringing orgasmic pleasure to ten or more men every
    night?

    The idea that there is any rational basis for atheism is further damaged by the fact so many atheists become atheists during their teenage years, a period that combines a tendency toward mindless rebellion and the onset of sexual desires that collide with religious strictures on their satisfaction. Of course these women complaining are correct, and they should not have to go through this kind of thing. But what do you expect from men whose moral development ended at 16?

    What is sad, even tragic, about both the abuse of these women, and the whole of the radical and throughly irrational atheist movement is that it casts an appaling shadow on those who have legitimate doubt about God, regardless of the reason for that doubt. I, as a believer, want to see everyone come to Christ, but I recognize that doubt can be legitimate, especially given God’s own command to “come, and reason with Me”.

  186. Let your unsaved friends know, as Christians, they won’t have to worry about or deal with their problems. Are they poverty-stricken? Illiterate? In ill health? In an abusive relationship? Secular thought would have them seek education, job training, a healthier lifestyle and divorce to overcome these problems. But True Christians® know better. We tell them they shouldn’t be ashamed of their plight at all. In fact, they should be proud to be disenfranchised. After all, the meek, the poor, the hungry and the persecuted are blessed (Matthew 5:3-6). They will be rewarded in Heaven for their suffering on Earth. Become a Christian and you will no longer feel compelled to cope or deal with your mortal problems.

  187. I’m highly disturbed by the comments to this article. Plenty of males, regardless of religion or the lack of it, do not see women as equal, and therefore have no problem treating us as walking vaginas to be used and abused. I have to say that the men who think they need a god to keep from raping me, though, are just as scary as the ones who are on the known offenders’ lists. You are telling me that you have no innate concept of right or wrong, and one day you might give in to that weakness and just help yourself to violating me or another woman.

  188. Huh. I am an unmarried Catholic young adult woman and attend a ton of Catholic events and have never known anything like this occur at our events, people are always respectful of women. To us, socializing or courtship behavior would never involve sexual advances. Not surprising to me that atheist women also find that disturbing when it occurs.

    Without any objective foundation for morality, indeed with some people’s atheism having a lot to do with a commitment to sexual sin and rejection of the moral influence of their religion of origin, problems with sexual behavior at their get-togethers are probably pretty inevitable. Interesting to see the atheist groups telling their event attendees, you need to behave chastely in regards to the other attendees. God and the moral law find their way into every situation.

  189. Anthony Magnabosco

    A recent ‘The Godless Bitches’ podcast addressed this very issue:

    http://godlessbitches.podbean.com/2012/05/29/episode-212/

  190. @Brian Peterson

    And some stray beyond the bounds of standard morality, and find it extremely advantageous to do so. It’s also called rational self-interest.

  191. Worldslaziestbusker

    In short, yes, a sexual harassment problem does exist in skeptical and atheist conventions. While there are some people who are keen to see the problem swept under the rug, others are discussing it vigorously and people are voting with their feet by attending conventions in which policies are being instituted to help deal with sexual harassment.
    Juxtapose this with sexual harassment in religious organisations, wherein sexual inequality is often written into the doctrine, where the official policy has often been to sweep it under the carpet, and where believers, trapped by their desire to be rewarded/not punished for eternity, do not feel enfranchised to vote with their feet.
    Sexual harassment is a problem in almost every aspect of our society. It’s how organisations attempt to deal with it that determines the merit of their efforts on this matter.

  192. Dear atheists…you seem to be confused. No-one thinks you can’t live moral lives without God – you can and we expect you too. The problem is that without God, you don’t have any basis to say any particular act or attitude actually is moral or immoral. You certainly have no basis to convince anyone else that your own view on what is moral should be their view too. ‘Betterment of society’, ‘best for the species’ – who defines what best is? Why should I agree with your authority?

  193. George Simpson

    I don’t care much for TAM — a meeting of people whose only common cause is they don’t have any belief.
    I applied for the randi.org $1Million Challenge. They accepted my application and then realizing I would win, they wouldn’t go forward. I filed a federal lawsuit against them, http://www.etcorngods.com/amendedcomplaint.pdf
    Those of you who believe there is a GOD — my work proves it. See: www.ufoetblog.com

  194. george.r.simpson

    I have filed a federal lawsuit against James Randi and his organization for not following through on my $1Million Challenge application. See: http://www.etcorngods.com/amendedcomplaint.pdf