(RNS) After winning the Pulitzer Prize in 2007 for his expose of al-Qaida, journalist Lawrence Wright turned his eye toward another secretive and controversial religious movement.
Pulitzer-prize winning journalist Lawrence Wright talks to Religion News Service about his new book “Going Clear: Scientology, Hollywood & the Prison of Belief.” RNS photo courtesy Alfred A. Knopf.
This image available for Web and print publication. For questions, contact Sally Morrow.
The Church of Scientology boasts a glittering roster of celebrity adherents and landmark real estate. But beneath the shiny surface, Wright says, lies a tangle of deceit, violence and paranoia.
His new book “Going Clear: Scientology, Hollywood & the Prison of Belief,” uncovers a church in which the founder fabricated wartime exploits, top executives are regularly abused and children sign billion-year contracts to work for low wages under poor conditions.
The Church of Scientology emphatically denies Wright’s charges, calling them “ludicrous” and “unsubstantiated.” The church has also dedicated a website to correcting what they see as errors in the book.
Wright spoke recently to Religion News Service. This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
Q: Why did you write this book?
A: I’ve always been curious about why people believe one thing rather than another. In America you can believe anything you want, unlike in a lot of other countries where there’s only one religion. So why would people be drawn to Scientology, one of the most esoteric and stigmatized religions?
Q: And what did you find?
A: Oftentimes people who go into Scientology are dealing with a personal problem. If you enter a Church of Scientology building you’ll be asked, “What is your ruin?” That is, what is standing in the way of your financial, spiritual and emotional success? And they will talk through things with you and offer a menu of courses designed to help. And many people do feel that they are helped by the courses or therapy.
Q: What does “going clear” mean for Scientologists?
A: L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology, had a theory that we have two minds. One is our rational, analytic mind. It’s like a computer: it remembers everything perfectly. What gets in the way of that is the “reactive” mind, which is full of fears and neuroses and traumas from our previous life and previous lifetimes. The object is to expunge those old painful memories, which he calls “engrams.” Once you eliminate the reactive mind you become “clear”: more intelligent, your reactions are quicker, your eyesight is better, you’re invulnerable to disease – near superhuman, in other words.
Q: And people believed this despite the fact that the promised benefits rarely come to pass, even for Hubbard?
A: The idea that you could acquire these powers was definitively an incentive and still is. In one of their magazines they have a section called “OT Powers,” in which upper-level Scientologists report what appear to be coincidences that they have experienced, like being able to change traffic lights to green and cure goldfish of sudden disease. None of them seem very remarkable, and it’s a very expensive course of treatment.
Q: You present a complex portrait of Hubbard, who seemed both desperately insecure and supremely self-confident. What drove him?
A: I think much of what he wanted was to cure himself. In the book I make an analogy to schizophrenia being called the “shaman sickness” in aboriginal cultures. These are people we would consider schizophrenics, but who perform a function in society and religion. Hubbard created this image of himself as a wounded warrior who couldn’t be healed by modern medicine, but healed himself and then went out to heal the community.
Pulitzer-prize winning journalist Lawrence Wright talks to Religion News Service about his new book “Going Clear: Scientology, Hollywood & the Prison of Belief.” RNS photo courtesy Alfred A. Knopf.
This image available for Web and print publication. For questions, contact Sally Morrow.
Q: And yet his injuries and war record were largely fictional, according to your reporting.
A: Yes, exactly.
Q: Can you describe what you discovered about Scientology’s secret work camps in the U.S.?
A: There are re-education camps in different locations for Sea Org members (Scientology’s clergy) who have offended the leader or committed some infraction against the Church of Scientology. On one of them, Gold Base, there’s a place called “the hole”: two double-wide trailers married together, where people are sent, often without being told of their crimes.
In 2004, (church leader) David Miscavige cleared away all the furniture and sent top executives to stay there, some for years. An elderly man who was the president of the church (a nominal post) was in the hole for seven years. Mike Rinder, Scientology’s (former) international spokesman, was placed in the hole. Occasionally they pulled him out, put a tuxedo on him and sent him to a gala to give a speech. Then he went back in the hole.
Q: Why hasn’t the government done anything about this?
A: At one point the FBI told my sources, former Scientologists, that they were planning a raid on Gold Base. They were going to open the hole and liberate the people there. But my sources told the FBI not to bother. The people held in the hole would only tell them that everything was sunlight and seashells there – that they were there for their own good. There are some people who actually escaped from the Sea Orgs but who went back. Other times they would be tracked down and brought back by a crew that is trained to follow and find people who have fled. They are very good at finding you; and when they do, you are likely going back into confinement for a long time.
Q: Why would someone willingly go back, or agree to stay in those camps?
A: Well, put yourself in their place. Many of them joined as children, some were born into it. Many, if not all, of their friends and family are Scientologists. If you left, they would never talk to you again. They are only paid $50 a week, so they don’t have any income or education to fall back on. Young Scientologists don’t really get any formal education. Their knowledge of the outside world is very restricted and they are taught to distrust outsiders. From the very beginning, when you go into Scientology your world narrows down very quickly. You’re also taught that your salvation is at stake and if you bring disgrace on Scientology nothing could be worse. To some extent, they are not being held against their will; it’s their will that is holding them there.
Q: You detail some pretty serious violations of child labor laws by Scientology. Why isn’t law enforcement stepping in?
A: I don’t know. I mean, the church says it’s not in violation, but I look at those labor laws and it seems pretty clear. I can tell you that law enforcement agencies are reluctant to get involved with the Church of Scientology. The church is surrounded by high-powered lawyers. If you are going to take on the Church of Scientology, whether it’s the FBI or the IRS or the sheriff of Riverside County, it’s a mighty task, and the agencies know that very well.
Q: For example, they completely cowed the IRS to get their religious organization exemption.
A: And this is a rather small organization that could inflict so much trouble on the IRS. I don’t know what the IRS used to judge that Scientology was a religion. A group of accountants and lawyers is not the best-equipped body to disentangle what a religion is, but the circumstances surrounding the tax exemption are pretty alarming. The church filed a barrage of lawsuits, had private investigators tail IRS agents and smear their careers. The reason behind the deal for the IRS was so that the harassment and lawsuits would stop.
Q: Scientologists have a history of surveilling, threatening, and suing journalists too, sometimes even framing them for crimes. Are you concerned about that?
A: My eyes were open to start with, but it was such an amazing story I couldn’t resist myself. So far the church has published one surveillance photo of me interviewing a source, but I think they were more interested in the source than me. I have received stern letters from the Church of Scientology and their lawyers and from the lawyers of celebrities mentioned in the book, but no one has sued me. And I’m very confident in the sourcing and material in the book.
Q: David Miscavige, the leader of the Church of Scientology, comes across as a violent, abusive person in your book. How different would the church be if he weren’t leading it?
A: You have to give him credit, he saved Scientology. If not for the tax exemption he managed to get, Scientology would be out of business. They owed a billion dollars in back taxes, and he salvaged the church from certain death. I know that a lot of people who have left the church blame him for moving away from L. Ron Hubbard’s original ideas, but the difference is that Miscavige grew up in, and is a product of, the Church of Scientology. It’s hard to know how it would be different without him.
Q: If people know anything about Scientology, they likely know about celebrity members like Tom Cruise. You write that fame is actually a spiritual value for the church. How so?
A: L. Ron Hubbard set up the Church of Scientology in Hollywood in 1954 for a reason. He understood that celebrity was increasingly a feature of American public life, and celebrities themselves were going to be worshipped as minor deities were in the ancient world. The Celebrity Centre in Hollywood went out to court exemplary figures that Scientology could use as front men. Early on, the church published an ideal list of catches, including Bob Hope, John Ford, Marlene Dietrich and Walt Disney. The idea was: if you could get them, think how many people would follow.
Q: Do you think celebrity members like John Travolta and Cruise know about the abuses perpetuated by church leaders?
A: If they don’t, I think it must be willful blindness on their part. It’s not as if people in the public don’t know, or that you can’t find out about these abuses. It’s easy to do. But Scientologists are trained to avoid noticing any kind of public criticism, and I think that’s especially true of celebrities. The are coddled and given special treatment – that’s a perk of being a celebrity in the Church of Scientology – and they are reluctant to give that up, and in the process they are overlooking very serious abuses.
The Church of Scientology transformed this former bank in downtown Clearwater, Fla., into part of its headquarters, where church members receive spiritual counseling. Religion News Service photo courtesy of Church of Scientology.
Q: Your write that no one has receive more material benefits from the church – motorcycles, cars, house repairs, etc. – than Tom Cruise. Does he bear any responsibility for the church’s misdeeds?
A: I think he bears a moral responsibility to look into the abuses. The public sees him as the primary spokesperson for the Church of Scientology. The church has exploited him and rewarded him, and because of his membership, more people have heard about and joined the church. There are not many avenues for change in the Church of Scientology, and Tom Cruise might be able to affect more change than anyone else.
Q: You write that Miscavige watches videos of Cruise’s secret confessions at night with a glass of whiskey. That alone might draw some response from the actor. Has he reacted to your book yet?
A: His lawyer weighed in and said he thought the book was very boring.
Q: The church has been a bit more critical, calling your book “error-filled” and “unsubstantiated.” How do you respond to that?
A: I spoke to more than 250 people, many of them current or former Scientologists, and some of them were at the top levels of the church. Starting with The New Yorker (Wright wrote an article about Scientology for the magazine in 2011), we sent more than 1,000 fact checking questions to the church. Since the article came out in The New Yorker, we’ve sent more than 150 fact checking questions to the church. We received only partial responses, some of them very hostile. I tried to present the church’s perspective as much as possible.
KRE/LEM END BURKE
37 Comments
Samki
Hi Mr. Burke,
Thank you for interviewing Mr. Wright about his book, which I have read with great interest. The CoS is a criminal organization that seems to stop at nothing to achieve the goals of its designer (and the designer’s heir apparent, David Miscavige) – it, and its adherents, truly believe the end justifies the means. They are capable of anything.
I hope “Going Clear” reaches a wide audience and causes people to look, research, and discover for themselves what this group is capable of and what its goals are.
If you readers out there are new to the subject, try googling (include “scientology” in all these searches) Wollersheim, Reed Slatkin, Lisa MacPherson, Patrick Desmond, Maria Pia Gardini. There are so many, many more who have been damaged by this group.
Or just for fun, in your google search bar simply begin to type “scientology is”…. and see what google leads you to.
Truly frightening.
Thanks again, Mr Burke – and you too, Mr Wright.
Put3
Why isnt the reference you gladly make a link to not used in the interview?
This article and that website is schziophrenic… one man’s word against another… and no hard evidence… typical of EVERY ARTICLE YOU READ ON THIS RELIGION!
Rick
I’m not really sure I understand your comment. I suspect that part of the issue is that Scientology doesn’t believe in traditional education, hence the difficulty with expressing oneself in writing, spelling, etc. Actually I think the misspelling is probably a typo. Want to try again? Surely you can say something that makes more sense….
By the way, I used to be in the Sea Org. The stories are true.
Michael Leonard Tilse
If a current scientologist such as Put3 could just explicitly follow their own “doubt formula”, they would find hard evidence by the bushel.
For instance, many of the documents from the FBI raid of the Guardian’s office in 1977 are available, which show clearly scientologists in official positions planning and executing illegal break-ins and thefts from government offices.
The “stipulation of evidence” that the high scientology officials agreed to is eye-opening.
And, testimony under oath IS evidence. One only needs to research the testimony and exhibits entered in the Gerry Armstrong trial to find more than enough to shake your belief system.
Put3, it is only your self-censorship and unwillingness to LOOK that keeps you supporting scientology. Think of all the outpoints within the ‘church’ you have to ignore daily. Hubbard himself said “look, don’t listen”. You should take his advice.
Michael Leonard Tilse
Here is a link to my take on how ordinary caring people get into scientology and the factors that make them into fanatic.
http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=100838
Andrew Robertson
An excellent comment Michael. Lawrence Wright’s book is a thoughtful and well balanced analysis of the Church of Scientology’s history and current behavior.
Which, given the misery the organization has inflicted on so many of its members must be alarming information for those unfamiliar with its methods.
If adults choose to remain in the Church their decision must be respected and not mocked.
My concern is for the children brought up by Scientologist parents who have no choice for freedom of belief unless they have the courage to break free with the inevitable consequence of having their parents and siblings ‘disconnect’ from them.
Inducted into the Sea Org with no formal education and compelled to work long hours in menial jobs equips them poorly for a real life.
Derek Bloch,someone I admire, has written strongly about this awful choice.
So has Lori Hodgson whose two children are still in the maws of the Sea Org.
She misses them dreadfully.
But when should the State step in to stop abusive behavior towards children? It is a difficult decision particularly in a country like America where a phrase like ‘Religious Freedom’ has quite properly a significant resonance.
Shielded by lawyers and private investigators the Church of Scientology still enjoys protection from its malevolent practices.
Unless crimes are discovered which make it impossible for the Federal and State agencies to ignore instigating prosecution then the Church will continue along its malevolent path.
Andrew
Marc Headley
I was in the Scientology Sea Org for 15 years. I was posted at the international headquarters where the “hole” is. Wright’s book just scratches the surface! There are so many crimes happening in that place, it would blow your mind.
Scientology is good at having secrets, not keeping them.
Soon all of the abuse and wrong doing will be exposed and Scientology will start having to pay off former members and lawsuits all around.
More books will be coming out this year and all will say the same thing.
Scientology is evil and ruins people and the families.
Bob G
Keep up the good work Marc. Glad you made it out.
Still On Your Side
The Church of Scientology will be shut down by the federal government when it realizes that ending FBI and DHS investigations because Miscavige’s lawyers have DC connections and because of “religious immunity” is no different than allowing Warren Jeffers to molest young girls because of “religious immunity.” The difference is that Miscavige is abusing a lot more children. It’s been settled for decades in the US, by the Supreme Court, that religious freedom does not extend to actions that abuse children or take away their human rights. It makes me sick to hear federal officials using the religion card to excuse their lack of action.
Still On Your Side
Add the State of Georgia.
Elizabethan
Thank you Daniel Burke for this article and Lawrence Wright for his book.
As a former public member of this cult I’d like to add a note about going Clear. Once you reach that level you are really hooked into doing whatever they want you to do. If you have enough money you continue fast up the levels or you are ready to be recruited into helping the OSA department by doing their dirty tricks; lying, spying, stealing, believing they are not dirty at all. At some level you really want to help, and you are Clear about that. You help the group only and destroy yourself and innocent people!
Scientology is a dangerous, insidious cult, I’m happy to see this exposed.
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Beneva
There are two sides to every story aren’t there? Unfortunately, the other side is missing in this article. A former sea org’er like marc hedley says “evil cult’, while thousands of active sea org members do what they do BECAUSE they know they are helping make the world a better place and they lead the fulfilling lives that they want to lead. I know, because I’ve talked to many of them with several, in as long as, or longer than marc hedley. Additionally, why is no one mentioning that there are prominent scientologists who have relatives and loved ones in the sea org. Why would this be if it was an evil organization? The answer? it’s not. Why is there no law enforcement agency prosecuting if they are a “criminal organization?” The answer? It’s not. Why do so many of the ex-members attacking the church have either a history of asking the church for money or are part of a law suit to extract money? (Which many, including marc hedley, have lost.). Why did lawrence wright and/or religionnews.com not talk to or include the scores of happy, satisfied scientologists and sea org members? Why do Lawrence Wright and religionnews.com not mention that the church of scientology runs the worlds largest anti-drug program which is also endorsed and distributed by the worlds largest law enforcement agency. Lawrence Wright and this article offer only ONE side of the story when in fact, there are two. Why is an article on “religionNEWS” not getting BOTH sides of the story? Where are the journalism ethics here? Isn’t it in your best interest for ALL religions to offer a comprehensive view on accusations towards ANY religion? Haven’t ALL religions been persecuted? Haven’t ALL religions had both good and bad members? Of course the answer is yes. Using the logic of lawrence wright and religionnews, I am then to conclude that because ALL religions have had bad members that have made mistakes therefore all religions are bad? Of course not. I’m truly disappointed in the biased, one-sided approach to reporting here on religionnews.com.
Michael Leonard Tilse
I can tell from the way you have written that you have deep internal conflicts between what you see, the everyday outpoints within the ‘church’, and what you have to tell yourself to keep supporting it.
You are not bad for defending it. After all, you were taught falsehoods to get you to support it. Someday soon, you will really begin to look. And then you can discover for yourself what was real and what was a sham. Read my essay linked above. Read as much of both sides as you can.
Try not to do thinks you will be embarrassed about when you wake up.
Bob G
And why did not Lawrence talk to more Scientologists? It seems like COB will not allow members in Sea Org or others to talk openly without being monitored and told what they should parrot. And it seems like your PR person has not been too cooperative since the incident with Becky Cook
Bob G
As for drug treatment i am in that field. There is no scientific proof that long saunas and mega doses of niacin can cure drug addiction, and in fairness it is hard to treat addicts. But some have died as has been documented by these treatments and by poor management. But COS is not able to rationally evaluate what works or does not work in Drug treatment or in other areas as COS members are not encouraged to evaluate other approaches as COS members treat LRH as their only source of knowledge and the tech must be applied without question or alteration.
Beneva
Bob G, the program I was referring to is http://www.scientology.org/how-we-help/truth-about-drugs.html . It is the world’s largest private anti-drug program.
Bob G
nice PR but the truth is that patients have died from long saunas due to overheating and they have also been likely harmed from large doses of niacin which can be toxic to the liver. A rational person would ask honest questions of what works not just follow LRH like a puppet. Your response Beneva and the available research out there on the dangers of Narcanon indicates that the so called Tech makes it more difficult for people to think rationally and to consider alternative approaches to solving problems as COS members are forbidden to question the master’s teachings.
Suzanna
Beneva,
please just keep reading both sides. Don’t automatically discount all former members. They were once true believers.
What changed? The information is out there…All of it.
LRH said….Look, don’t listen.
Please keep looking.
Steven B
“Why is there no law enforcement agency prosecuting if they are a ‘criminal organization?’ ”
Ummm, THEY ARE! Google…
“Belgium to bring fraud charges against Scientologists”
“Turin Police Raid Scientology Chapter”
“Moscow Police Raid New Scientology Centre”
“French Court Convicts Church of Scientology for Fraud”
Still On Your Side
I was trying to reply to Steven B when I wrote above “add the State of Georgia.” Narconon is being investigated for criminal insurance fraud by the State of Georgia, and I predict when law enforcement follows the money trail to Miscavige and the Church of Scientology, they too will be investigated for criminal acts.
Steven B
“Why do Lawrence Wright and religionnews.com not mention that the church of scientology runs the worlds largest anti-drug program”
Are you talking about Narconon, which was shut down in Quebec for health, safety and labor law violations, facing civil suits for the deaths of several patients there (Stacy Dawn Murphy, Gabriel Graves, Kaycie Werninck, Hillary Holten, Patrick Desmond and others) and a criminal investigation for insurance fraud in Georgia?
Lola
Wow u smell like some scientologists I know. Scientology didn’t have over 500 years to do harm like other religios.but hey, they are doing way more damage already! They are efficient at destroying people. their unethical way of doing “business ” can b compared to the mob than religion. Have u thought of that? I think you are being bias.
Km
It’s funny but sad that all critics of scientology are liars, apostates, bigoted’ etc. Don’t defend but attack, attack, attack you critics. When will scientology realize these tactics don’t work anymore?
Bob G
And as COS members are indoctrinated to believe that all critics are liars, apostates, bigoted, or under the influence of evil body thetans, etc they are programmed, ( and remember LRH though the human brain was like a computer) to not believe any information from non COS sources. So the information which may be of help to them is denied or their minds shut it out. The only hope for most COS members is that things get so bad in the org or they get so broke that they are forced to look outside the org for truth. Sort of like an alcoholic that must hit bottom first before they are open to help and to reality.
Bob G
And for those lurking who are in COS, when you go broke taking expensive courses or get tired of constantly being pushed to pay more for new books, building funds,, etc. If you find yourselves being emotionally abused or worse by the org, experience disconnection from family members or from friends you love and you may be feeling confused by being told by the org that these things don’t happen or you cannot talk about them, and are feeling only pain and no gain from the org. When that happens there is help out there but you must have the courage to google ex Scientologists or to read their stories first and to begin to learn another viewpoint. Some have made it out.
Suzanna
Actually Bob, Many have made it out. And those numbers have been growing steadily (especially lately).
There are resources out here in the WOG world. There are many who will help. Use that Google resource.
It is the way to freedom.
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Midwest Mom
Thank you Daniel Burke and Religion News Service for this informative interview.The comments attacking this article are obviously Scientology OSA trolls. They usually use the “all religions are equally ridiculous” argument and usually attack and mock Christians and most often, the Catholic Church, hoping to deflect commentary away from the subject of Scientology’s abuses to derail into arguments about all religions.
Anyone with use of the internet can read about the corrupt and abusive organization which is the Church of Scientology. Read about Operation Snow White and Operation Freakout and you’ll realize that L. Ron Hubbard was an evil and vindictive man; not a “humanitarian” as the cult claims.
Another factor we should remember, is that this cult preys on those who are seeking help with addictions and they use this opportunity to recruit rehab patients with Hubbard teachings as part of the program.
They also use Hubbard’s teachings to recruit those people in third world nations who are devastated by tragedy and natural disasters and are orphaned. They don’t provide the normal help Christian missionaries provide, but teach children to stare at each other for hours, to yell at inanimate objects and at each other (bull baiting) and other brainwashing techniques and punishments.
Thank you again for the great job, Daniel. I can tell that you did your homework for this interview and it shows! Kudos to you!
Beastie
I just want to note that CoS can also stand for “Church of Satan”, and that unlike the Church of Scientology, the Church of Satan is in no way an evil cult whose teachings are contrary to Christianity.
Bob G
Beastie perhaps I should have used CO$ as some have. As for as COS you referred to this is a bit off topic but not really. My understanding of Satanism is that one group worships a personal satan and the other branch of Anton Levay uses satan as a myth to exalt the self. And we Christians believe we can choose hell by either worshipping satan or by making an idol of the self. As for Hubbard, in reading Wright’s book it is clear that LRH exalted himself and with his study of the Magick of Aleister Crowleys works, along with Jack Parsons, and their practice of occult rituals, it is clear to me that they and satanists are heading in the same general direction. Perhaps Satanism does not deny the teachings of Christianity any more than a person jumping off a cliff without a parachute proves the law of gravity wrong. That is, I believe on judgment day when we stand before God we will prove God right by facing either His mercy or His justice. I pray my readers and yourself choose His grace and His mercy while there is still time.
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Rachel Hindle
they are obviously making use of, and are developing mind energies and psychicsm through its followers, it’s not a bad thing to take control and realise the true human design when we are over run by corrupt heads of state and other mindless entities
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