BEVERLY, Mass. (RNS) For Alcoholics Anonymous to continue helping addicts find freedom in sobriety, the 75-year-old organization has to reclaim its spiritual roots.
That’s the message coming from reformers who say the group has drifted from core principles and is failing addicts who can’t save themselves. But what constitutes the heart of AA spirituality is a matter of spirited debate.
Has AA become too God-focused and rigid? Or have groups watered down beliefs and methods so much that they’re now ineffective?
“Some think AA is not strict enough,” said Lee Ann Kaskutas, senior scientist at the Public Health Institute’s Alcohol Research Group in Emeryville, Calif. “Others think it’s too strict, so they want to change AA and make it get with the times.”
With more than 100,000 local meetings and an estimated two million members worldwide, AA is grappling with how much diversity it can handle. Over the past two years, umbrella organizations in Indianapolis and Toronto have delisted groups that replaced AA’s 12 steps to recovery with secular alternatives. More than 90 unofficial, self-described “agnostic AA” groups now meet regularly in the United States.
Faith language in AA goes back to the group’s founders, Bill Wilson and Robert Holbrook Smith. Six of the 12 steps, as prescribed in the original 1939 “Big Book,” refer to God either explicitly or implicitly. Step three, for example, cites “a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.”
Now some worry the founders’ efforts to be as inclusive as possible are being undermined by attempts to ensure, as one Indianapolis AA newsletter put it, that “AA remains undiluted.”
“In the past, there was a great deal of elasticity and tolerance in terms of different views,” said Roger C., a Toronto agnostic whose book “The Little Book: A Collection of Alternative 12 Steps” came out in January, and who doesn’t use his last name to protect his privacy. “But there’s been an increasingly rigidity from those who say, ‘It’s got to be this way and only this way.’ That has alienated a great number of people.”
But others argue that AA seldom offers the tough love that alcoholics need. Too many meetings ignore the 12 steps posted on their walls, said Charles Peabody, a 35-year-old former alcoholic and drug addict whose 2012 memoir, “The Privileged Addict,” has an entire chapter on “Watered Down AA.”
For Peabody and many addicts he’s sponsored, the key to becoming “a free man” has been rigorous and urgent application of the 12 steps, from taking fearless moral inventory to making painful amends. Yet mainstream AA meetings routinely do a “disservice,” he argues, by leading attendees to believe that meetings and sponsors – rather than God and concrete action steps – are what they need most in recovery.
“In mainstream AA, you hear either the war stories or the sob stories,” said Peabody, who lives in Beverly, Mass. “This is the solution? I just keep coming, drinking crappy coffee and listening to people bitch and moan? I knew that wasn’t going to work.”
Research suggests other factors can be more important than vigorous application of the 12 steps. Kaskutas says the strongest predictors of sustained sobriety through AA are whether a person has a sponsor, has a social network that consists of non-drinkers and is committed to service.
Spiritual practices aren’t always necessary for recovery, research suggests, but they can help.
“Prayer and meditation increase as a function of AA participation,” said John Kelly, associate director of the Center for Addiction Medicine at Massachusetts General Hospital. “That does lead to better outcomes for some.”
Men who’ve beaten addictions with Peabody’s guidance trace their healing to character reform via the original 12 steps. Twenty-three-year-old Pat Smith of Wakefield, Mass. battled heroin and crack cocaine in his teenage years, but nothing worked until he enrolled in a residential, intensive 12-step program. For addicts, he says, surrender to God is an indispensable step.
“People [at AA meetings] are like, ‘We don’t need God in here, leave God out of it,’” Smith said. “But the truth is, AA is a religious program… It’s Christian principles, the whole book. So it’s like, if you guys want to go to meetings and leave God out of it, then go ahead. But don’t call it AA because it’s not.”
Roger C. brings a different concern. Those who insist on doing the original 12 steps, he says, are apt to alienate nonbelievers, who might never get the help they need.
Some get turned off “when someone comes up to you as a new member of AA and tells you, ‘if you don’t find God, you’re going to die a drunk,’” Roger C says. “That rigidity is very religious, very intolerant and very hurtful to a number of recovering alcoholics who are looking for an avenue to get sober.”
Offering multiple pathways to recovery bodes well for alcoholics, Kaskutas says, because what works for one person doesn’t always work for someone else.
“Because there’s this ethic of take what you need and leave the rest, it puts the attendee in a position of being able to form a program that is palatable to them,” Kaskutas says. “AA is doing just fine.”
36 Comments
Bill C.
As a thrity-three year veteran of AA, an addict and an alcoholic, a former Catholic priest, a degreed theologian, and as a man who would define himself today (just for today, and with the words of a former sponsor who died but who still lives in my heart) as a left-wing agnostic with a higher power, I found the above article fascinating, especially when it came to the comments of Mr. P.
1) It seems to me that he is deliberately setting himself in contradiction to the Traditions of AA, which state explicitly that the only qualification for membership is “…the desire to stop drinking.”
2) In his denigration of “war stories” and sob stories,” bitching and moaning, and crappy coffee, I get a sense of the intolerance that usually flows from an incomplete enbrace of the the acceptance demanded in the first of the twelve steps…the only step, I would suggest, that necessary in any absolute sense. But also, I would suggest that it is precisely this “acceptance” or “surrender” of one’s powerless over his own alcoholism, or anybodyd else’s, that is that rock-solid foundation of Twelve Step spirituality. If that acceptance has happened, in my experience, then the “bitching and moaning,” the interminable (so it seems at times) “war stories and sob stories,” become somehow the sharing of journies and growth, and the outstretched hand of companionship and franternity. They become “cor ad cor loquitum,” heart speaking unto heart.
3) Both Bill W. and Dr. Bob would turn over in their graves hearing somebody saying AA is an explicitly “religious” organization; that was the point of “…as we underatand Him…” is about. Spiritual, yes, religious, no….and if Mr. P. does not know the difference, I’d suggest he try ninty meetings in ninty days, focusing on the first and thrid steps.
Bill C.
J.W.
Dear Bill C.,
I have been on both sides of this divide in opinions about AA. I have embraced both the rigid approach and the “eazy duz it” approach. Basically I burnt out on being a rigid “Big Book thumper.” All too many of these folks end up drunk and quoting big book passages on barstools. Yet I also see the point of not allowing AA to become a “piss and moan society.” So basically I hope that there is some happy medium in the middle we AA folks can agree on. I believe that the 12 steps themselves are the religious principles we need to adapt yet with the option of organized religion left solely to the individual member. The word “God” has a multitude of intrepretation and meaning inside AA as what Bill called the “10 Spot” implies (God as we understand God.) I am a severely physically handicapped member of AA and i wish the kneeling fanatics would drop their unsupported instistance on equating humility with kneeling. Yet, I find myself agreeing somewhat that AA ought not become just a problem discussion club. My major disagreement with some of the fanatical wing is that they ought not be trying to convert our members to their particular form of religion. They would do well to remember that AA split from the old Oxford Groups because the Roman Catholic members of the Cleveland group were told that they could not attend meetings that were affiliated with a protestant evangelical organization. Finally, as a former educated atheist, I am perhaps jandiced at the notion of groups disowning some definition of “god” as much as I am offended by the zealots who would make AA into a good ole evangelical Christian church. Again we ought to be able to meet in the middle since Bill W. gave us the option in the 12&12 to make the home group ones “higher power.” That is the “Group Of Drunks” definition of “god.”
Best wishes, J.W.
Bill C.
Thanks, J.W. for your comments and thoughts. I think you’re right: it’s a matter of balance…God save us from too many “bleeding deacons” but equally from those who would dilute the AA process of recovery by throwing out the 12 Steps in the name of “relevance.” My old sponsor (metioned above) used to say, “There’s no bad way to get ‘em sober, considering the alternative.” So, if AA ‘fundamentalism” does it for some, and therapy groups do it for others, or even if Schick Shadel and Passages Malibu do it for even more others, great; I’d rather see them alive and not drinking than dead. Recovery from this disease is rare and anything that implements recovery from it (even shamanism and crystals) needs to be applauded if and when it works.
Even today, after 33 years, practically every meeting I go to, I find myself, grumping, grousing, and wondering to myself for the first 15 minutes: “What and why the f…. am I doing here, listening to this bunch of damn drunks?!” Thanks to a good deal of tough love and patience by a lot of long-suffering fellow AA’s, I’ve come to realize that my arrogant exceptionality is an ever-present residue of my alcoholism; and so, if I sit still to minute 16 and 17, the healing of the Program might just begin to wash over me.
But still, bleeding deacons piss me off, too. But, then, sometimes I remember that G__, as I understand Him (which I don’t) has to become Christian to work for some, and become “Group of Drunks” to work for others, and even to become, as He did for a friend of mine, “A black, dyke, crap-shotter in the sky over Yakima.” Excuse me, I mean no blasphemy; rather, I suspect Higher Power (Whoever He, She, or It may be) is big enough and flexible enough to handle any definiton or understanding that any of us might be able to dream up up if it brings us the healing we need….that, I believe is what is important to Him/Her/It.
Bill C.
Katrina N.
To Bill C.
I’m a recovering addict in my twenties, just celebrated three years in NA and I am studying to be a Substance Abuse Counselor. My professor suggested this article to our class. After reading the article I had to chuckle to myself a bit, I found your response to be right in line with my opinion, just written better. Thank you for your comments, I do not know you, but in some way I actually do. Just wanted to reach out to a fellow addict.
Katrina
Bill C.
Thanks, Katrina.
Bill C.
Daniel Hoffman
I am a former seminarian who calls himself a “secularist” now. I miss the Liberation Theology that John Paul II despised and destroyed while I was in the seminary.
My 9 year old son is in Quaker school. I cannot find it in my heart to disagree with the statement that the spark of God exists in every person. Period. Most believers claim that they have it but others, like the tax collector in Luke 6, don’t.
Anyway, you probably know the Latin word for an isolated individual, or “person unto himself”. That Marlborough Man cowboy out on the range was lonely, drunk, and died of cancer. I suspect that a consitent and available mentor, a community that understands and social support is outstanding medicine for healing addiction and other wounds that find their way into our bodies. The wounded need sanctuary. Not judgment. You cannot heal until you are in a safe place.
Faith is an amazing placebo for safety, except when we are in real danger.
Thank you for your post.
Dan
Katie
SO WELL SAID. Thank you for speaking for me and my close friends in recovery. I do not understand the negative analysis of something that has, and is, working for millions. Sometimes I will read something such as the article you responded to and just sigh. There is so much contention bleeding through so many areas that one does not know where to start. It IS like nailing Jello to a wall. They don’t get it, and they don’t have to. But if they every need us, we’re here for all, in spirit. Not in religion. I have 26 years sober – I got it tough – bc they loved me enough to save my life with the truth and truth is oft times tough. I am eternally grateful to AA, along with the other millions around the world.
Alcoholics Anonymous wrestles with its spiritual roots – Religion News Service | americanpeacenik.com
[...] Alcoholics Anonymous wrestles with its spiritual rootsReligion News ServiceBEVERLY, Mass. (RNS) For Alcoholics Anonymous to continue helping addicts find freedom in sobriety, the 75-year-old organization has to reclaim its spiritual roots. That’s the message coming from reformers who say the group has drifted from core …and more » [...]
C. Peabody
Three things. One, I couldn’t care less what avenue any individual decides to take to help themselves get better. I only care that people stop hurting others and become useful. Two, the Twelve Steps were designed for the sole purpose of expelling the poison within that brings us down so that we may fill the space with spiritual principles and an appropriate relationship with God. It’s fine that AA has split into several different programs, but that’s what the Twelve Steps were and are, if we’re talking about the Steps. And Three, “…listening to others bitch and moan…” isn’t my quote. Jeff has confused that entire quote with someone else. Finally, to the reactive types out there, perhaps you ought to read my blog and/or my book and the positivity and sincere desire to help behind it before fueling up in front of a computer screen.
Jeff MacDonald
The Charles Peabody quote is accurate & verbatim. We recorded our interview with his consent. The quote runs from 38:48 to 38:58 on the tape.
Jeff MacDonald
Charles Peabody’s quote echoes the sentiment conveyed in his book on p. 59: “For me, AA had been nothing but a meeting room where I sit in a chair, listen to sob stories, drink lukewarm instant coffee, depend on others to keep me sober, and maybe run up at the end to get a sobriety chip while people clap. Perhaps I even raise my hand and tell a story of my own. But stories, sobriety chips and Maxwell House didn’t get me better.”
Daniel Hoffman
Mr. Peabody, I read two different messages in your 11:40 PM post.
“I only care that people stop hurting others and become useful.”
And
“The Twelve Steps were designed for the sole purpose of expelling the poison within that brings us down so that we may fill that space with spiritual principles and an appropriate relationship with God.”
I support the first statement. The second one makes it sound like you are an evangalist whose primary goal is harvesting people when they are the weakest and most vulnerable. It contradicts your first, and laudable, statement by declaring bluntly that the real goal of AA is to get people right with God as you get to determine it.
Which of your statements are you willing to retract?
.
C. Peabody
As requested, Jeff and I interviewed at length and after reviewing the entire session, I should note that his quotes are indeed accurate. Contextually, however, I don’t care to be pitted against anyone. I’ve never sought to judge or criticize others, as Jeff should be well aware. I’ve only sought to share my experience regarding what worked and what didn’t work for me as an addict, and I don’t have to answer to anyone. I’ve been trying to give back and become more other-centered for 8 years now, for my wife, family, friends, and other alcoholics and addicts. So as far as the above trolls are concerned, I can’t engage with this sort of toxicity.
Dave
You know, Mr. Peabody, when you call someone a troll simply for asking you to address real contradictions in things you have actually said, it feels cowardly and dishonest of you. You need to be able to stand up for what you’ve said or admit that you were wrong. Not just insult the character of the people who have pointed out where you seem to be in error simply for doing so. It’s the very lowest form of argumentation, and ought to be beneath your dignity.
Daniel Hoffman brings up a perfectly valid point. If you “only” care about people ceasing to hurt others, then by definition, you cannot have other concerns, such as adherence to your personal religious principles, but the second quote from you that he cited indicates that this is not the case. If the second statement is true, then the first cannot be. You need to address this if you wish to be taken seriously.
Peter
You know, Dave, the two statements are really not contradictory. If Mr. Peabody really cares about people he will of course want them to have an appropriate relationship with God. Only if you do not believe in God would you think that the two statements contradicting each other. But God exists whether you believe it or not. Get over it.
Dave
I’m afraid this still doesn’t wash.
The only way that these two comments don’t contradict one another is if you sincerely believe that the only way you can possibly stop hurting other people is to have what he believes to be an ‘appropriate’ relationship with his god.
I’ve known lots of people who don’t have any relationship with his god or any other who don’t cause harm to other people. Whether Mr. Peabody realizes or believes this to be the case or not.
An Increasing Number of Atheist and Agnostic Alcoholics Anonymous Groups Are Altering the Twelve Steps
[...] Jeffrey MacDonald of Religion News Service points out that AA is going through a crisis right now, wondering how flexible they can be with the religion [...]
Daniel Hoffman
Peter, to “stop hurting others” does not require belief in God. Does it? If you think so, it would explain a lot.
There are many who believe that God punishes the just for the sins of the unjust. Is that what you think?
If someone’s faith helps them treat their family and other people better and helps them with their addiction, I wouldn’t presume to tell them they are wrong to believe what they do, just so long as they focus on their own relationship with God and don’t insist that the rest of us do the same.
AA should be about people first, not God first. This is the issue I am getting at with Mr. Peabody. I understand that some cannot see the distinction. That’s fine. Just spell it out.
Don Lattin
Since no one speaks for AA, no one can define it. That’s its power. You can find just about any kind of group or sponsor in the fellowship. Every local meeting is autonomous. No one can “reform” it because it is constantly reforming itself.
As for God, the only words emphasized in italics in the entire 12 steps are “as we understood Him,” meaning YOU decide who, what or where God is. Some people need “strict.” Some don’t.
In my opinion, AA works because of the strength of fellowship and the redemptive power of storytelling. You find a new group of friends who are not drinking and drugging, and you discover a new and deeper way to relate to your fellow human beings.
I could go on and on about this, which is why I just published a book title “Distilled Spirits — Getting High, then Sober, with a Famous Writer, a Forgotten Philosopher and a Hopeless Drunk.” (available in print from University of California Press and as a Kindle email.
Alcoholics Anonymous wrestles with its spiritual roots
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[...] But what if you’re an agnostic, or an atheist? Can you climb those famous twelve steps if you don’t believe in God? Six of them have strong religious connotations, to say the [...]
Neil
While reading the 12 steps you will notice that there are only 2 times when a phrase is underscored…
That is
“God as we understand him”. That is the only sentence
That is emphatically underlined..
Not a Chistian, Jewish, Muslim or Buddah……
I See that not as a religious God
But a spiritual entity. Read the parts in the Big Book
With Carl Jung’s conclusions.. AA WORKS, I SEE IT WORKING EVERY DAY
so try everything and anything. If you stay sober and at the very least you don’t drive drunk well that’s just great…
But if you go to AA and you follow it’s suggestions (meetings, sponsor, home group, step work etc.) if you go to the same Lengths you went to stay sober as
You did to stay loaded, I promise it will work.
matt c
as an atheist who sobered up in AA several 24-hours ago, let me explain it the way my sponsor explained it:
1. there IS a god
2. you aren’t him
3. don’t drink, go to meetings, see what happens.
Tom
Mr Peabody -one question I.e.why did you decide to violate that key tradition of personal anonymity at the public level? Just asking….:-)
Danielle Murray
I Love AA, I love old school north shore AA, and am a member of to great groups that permote ” dont drink no matter what” physical sobriety is key. With that All things are possible.The God I brought in to AA Was not a God I could trust. came to believe, and have a wonderful God today. I have many friends who have long term, happy sober lives, and do no believe in God. That is non of my business. nor AA’s, or anyone else. Mr.P, I have never seen you in any meeting in our area in all my sober years…
Please come to old Salem Tuesday night, let me know what you think.
Danielle Murray
So ashamed of the typos…
New phone and became excited, forgetting to edit before I sent it.
one more thing…
our tradishions are far more important than the 12 steps.
the tradishions are spiritual in nature. They give real solutions as to how to live sober.
life is Good.
James B
Awe.. It really doesn’t matter how people get sober as long as they do… Bottom line is that u have to do whatever it takes for you to get sober. No ones road is the same. Danielle Murray was the first one of my friends that I knew that even got sober and she has help me alot. Mr. Peabody has been a lifelong friend since private School; I have been thru alot with both of these people. Mr Peabody introduces me to my first big book… he actually brought it to me on the hardest day of my life.. the day of my mothers funeral. I thank him for that.. I also thank the friendship of Danielle Murray of teaching me and guiding me thru sometimes in my life. But the point of my Story is I had to find my own way to get what I have… I have travelled my own road…Doesn’t matter how I have done it. All I can say is that I am happy and I am still learn how to live with myself and others… this journey will never stop.. I always have something else to learn.. and something to give to help another… Live and Let live.. people… Relax… Whatever helps people …. helps people… lets not judge… it is not our place to anyway… God Bless …. Much love
Tony H
Dear all board members,
I believe we are all on our great spiritual journeys – whether we are in or out of the rooms, whether conscious or not of a universal power greater than ourselves by whatever earthly name we choose to give it in whatever language – its ours and nobody else’s. The 12 Steps, and a lot of other “outside material” helped me develop the god of my understanding.
The beautiful part about journeys is that they move at their own pace. I have accepted my pace and those of others – sometimes I sit in meetings and say “ugh, another one” – that’s when I know the Czar of the Universe has identified a person I need to offer a welcoming hand. I was that person at one point, and still can be.
Some choose to “bitch and moan.” Others need to proselytize. The 12-steps and staying sober (at least from alcohol, I will omit discussion of character defects for the sake of brevity), I accept all of you in whatever phase of your journey you are in. If I meet any of you, and identity with your journey, I would offer you my experience, strength and hope about what worked for me and what didn’t. I would do that because others did it for me.
If not, I’ll simply exercise restraint of pen, tongue and keyboard.
Much love to you all, Tony
There Is a Solution | Realtime Recovery
[...] Alcoholics Anonymous wrestles with its spiritual roots (religionnews.com) [...]
Peter
Read the article and the comments. I want to know why people become addicted to alcohol or any other drug. Seems like that might be important to know when assessing the effectiveness of a program designed to help addicts. But the article and comments didn’t address that question. If getting drunk or high is the only way one can feel “right”, and cope with their life, and AA principles have proven effective to enable addicts to live without their drugs – seems like AA is just like church – a great idea that’s challenged by egos and control freaks.
larry t.
Trust God clean house help others. I was a big book thumper. Aa works if you work it. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. Aa is one alcoholic helping another. I don’t thump my big book anymore but I do think we have to keep Aa going as it is. If others want want a new Aa they can go to NA or start something else. Good luck to them and God bless them. If its not broke don’t fix it. How does Aa work? It works just fine. If you don’t like the meeting you are at go to a different one. We are blessed with many. Don’t drink no matter what.
Ernie G.
We of Alcoholics Anonymous who have recovered do not promote our program. We do not claim we have the only solution. We do not force anyone to believe anything. We only wish to be helpful to those who suffer from alcoholism. If you have a solution, you are welcome to help others. Our program has saved the lives of millions. Stop trying to change it. It works.
Do you need a ‘higher power’ to help you? | Sum Of All Forms
[...] More at The Religious News Service [...]
Dick B.
Alcoholics Anonymous and Christianity
Dick B.
© 2013 Anonymous. All rights reserved
[This Article is an outline of a major piece on Alcoholics Anonymous and Christianity. It is posted now because of the number of other writings on the subject of Alcoholics Anonymous and Christianity and on the subject of Christians in Alcoholics Anonymous. In the next day or so, citations backing up the statements and quotes will be appended; and the article will be revised accordingly]
Early Alcoholics Anonymous called itself a “Christian Fellowship.”
Observers frequently said that early A.A. was “First Century Christianity” at work.
Bill W. specifically said that Dr. Bob had reminded a group of AAs, including Bill, that most of them were practicing Christians.
A.A. Cofounder Dr. Bob had a deep and meaningful Christian upbringing.
A.A. Cofounder Bill W. also had a deep and meaningful Christian upbringing.
There were a number of Christian organizations and people who were helping drunks long before A.A. was founded; and these impacted on the lives of the Cofounders and the ideas adopted by A.A.
Bill W. said that the ideas in the First Step came from Dr. William D. Silkworth, who was a devoted Christian, a member of Rev. Sam Shoemaker’s Calvary Church in New York, and was the one who first told Bill that Jesus Christ, the Great Physician could cure Bill of his alcoholism.
A.A.’s connection with the Oxford Group at the beginning was mentioned by both Bill W. and Dr. Bob. And the Oxford Group was called “A First Century Christian Fellowship.”
Dr. Bob’s wife recommended to early AAs that they read books on the life of Jesus Christ and that they read the Bible every single day.
The devotionals that early AAs used in their prayer and meditation sessions were uniformly Christian.
All AAs in the Akron Number One Group were required to make a “regular surrender” in which they accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.
The books that Dr. Bob read and circulated among early AAs were primarily Christian and numbered in the dozens.
Bill Wilson accepted Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior at Calvary Rescue Mission in New York and wrote in his autobiography, “For sure, I’d been born again.”
The family of Dr. Bob—parents and grandparents—were very active in the North Congregational Church of St. Johnsbury
The family of Bill W.—parents and grandparents—were very active in the East Dorset Congregational Church in Vermont.
Both Dr. Bob and Bill W. were raised in Congregational churches and Sunday schools in Vermont–all attended by their parents and grandparents. They both attended Academies run by Congregationalists and which required attendance at Daily Chapel with Sermons, Hymns, Prayers, and reading of Scripture.
The early A.A. program in Akron, Ohio was founded primarily on Christian principles and practices laid down by the Young People’s Society of Christian Endeavor, in which Dr. Bob and his family were active in Vermont.
Bill W.’s “new version” of the program embodied in his Big Book and 12 Steps four years later was, according to Bill, based primarily on the teachings of Rev. Samuel M. Shoemaker, Jr., Rector of the Calvary Episcopal Church in New York, and whom Bill called a “cofounder of A.A.”
Dr. Bob’s wife kept a journal from 1933-1939 from which she read each morning to AAs and their families; and in it, she spoke frequently of the Bible, Christian literature, Jesus Christ, God, and the Holy Spirit.
Both Bill and Bob had extensive involvement with the Young Men’s Christian Association. Bill as President, and Dr. Bob’s father as President.
J.W.
Dear Dick B.,
I really don’t understand what point you are making. I serious doubt that Bill W. ever tried to convert a Jew to some sort of faith in Jesus as the Messiah. I seriously doubt that “Christian” members of AA have a higher sobriety success rate than non-Christian members of AA. The fact remains that the Alcoholics Anonymous Big Book does NOT require or suggest that a member place their faith in Jesus. NOT EVER! It is just beyond silly for you to try to suggest that Alcoholics Anonymous has EVER been a Christian organization just because many early members were Christians (mostly Roman Catholic). This is a clear distortion of what the Alcoholics Anonymous Big Book clearly says. Certainly you have to admit that a very large segement of our sober membership today have NO church affillation whatever whether you like that or not. It is also true that a signifant part of those sober members would not even be keen to identify themselves as even remotely Christian. Your ought to stop distorting the truth about the history of Alcoholics Anonymous. We AA’s call that sort of thing lying. Perhaps you ought to get aquinted with the term and stop it.
J.W.
Daniel Hoffman
Dick B., I’ve read incredible posts in this forum from people whom AA has helped change their lives profoundly. I’m also reading Don Latin’s book, “Distilled spirits” which talks about Bill Wilson in a very different light than as the big book thumper you portray him as.
Most of us couldn’t care less if AA was founded as an evangelical Christian organization or not. If it were one now it would help a fraction of the. people it does help. That matters little to the big book thumpers and their perverted Gospel of Wealth alliance with the plutocrats who collectively started the Culture Wars and advanced its “you are either with us or against us” and “take no prisoners” attitudes. Would you prefer that everyone had to accept Jesus as their personal savior as a prerequisite to attending AA? It would still exist because substance abuse is rife among the leadership of fundamentalist churches like the Calvary Chapels. But far less people would be helped. The reactionaries in the Catholic Curia last year were calling this “growth by pruning”.
What of the branches left laying on the ground? Some of us secularists retain the core Christian value that those fallen branches, lying in the dirt, are all always OUR branches. I remain unconvinced that the requirement of an entrance fee of a specific declaration of faith is compatible with that core Christian belief.
I do find the YMCA reference humorous. Its function was “grooming” and that it did. The Villiage People got the essence right. Search “Sexuality and the YMCA” and you will see what I mean.w