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(RNS) They started as a movement determined that Christ would return any day now. Now, as the Seventh-day Adventists turn 150 years old, there's growing tension about building an institution that many hope won't last much longer.

175 Comments

    • Give me a break! the Catholic Church did NOT originate in the Bible… It was a pagan Roman emperor, Constantine, who brought together the men that would eventually form the Catholic Church. JESUS CHRIST told his followers that they were not to have a hierarchy-(Matthew 23:1-12). The “original Christianity” of the Bible is nothing remotely like the Catholic Church. Ever read about the Inquisitions? Torture in the name of God…. Jesus said, “by their fruits you will know these men” (Matthew 7:15-16) The Catholic Church is mentioned in the Bible in Revelation ch.17 as “Babylon The Great”… read all about it….

    • The word Church in the bible means the represented body of Christ his saved children here on earth we the children of God are in one body and that is Christ Jesus. We Christians are the Church. The church is sometimes miss used when talking about a material building this is not “THE CHURCH” but merrily the place where the Church meets. John 14:2 says in my Fathers HOUSE are many Mansions meaning dwelling places and the first place that we dwell in is in the body of Christ Jesus the second dwelling place will be in Paradise then finally we will be called to be with God in Heaven our final resting place.

      (1)Matt 16:18- And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
      (2)Matt 18:17- And if he refuse to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church; let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

  1. Paul, you should read a book called the Great Controversy. You may find it very interesting regarding the rise of the Catholic Church. There is no doubt that it is a prophetic church described in the Bible.

    • Paul, I have read it. It is a comic book version of history. Full of errors. But it does show that Adventists don’t trust in the Bible alone. They need White, their Pope, to tell them what to believe. She is more important in Adventism then Jesus. 1st century Christians didn’t sit around and say “oh boy I can’t wait till Jesus comes back in 1844.” They did however celebrate the Eucharist as Catholics do.

      • No, but 1st century Christians were awaiting the imminent return of Jesus. That’s what makes this article kind of ironic. What’s happening to SDA now is what happened to the early church in the 100s and 200s.

      • Remember that when Christ interduced the Unicharist, He said to do this “TILL I COME”, Adventist do observe the Unicharist, only we call it the Lords Supper and due both the bread and wine.

      • There are MANY doubts, falsehoods, misconceptions and outright lies in the Adventist “Great Controversy” book, and the author Ellen G. White, is alleged to be their “prophet”. What you should know is that every one of her prophetic pronouncements FAILED miserably.

      • You are simply not right. “The Great Controversy” may be found „full of errors” by some strong Roman Catholics or by other old churches, because that book exposes the paganization and politization of Christianity in the Patristic era and later; it speaks about the horrors of the Inquisition; it follows the traces of the true Christian churches in Protestantism and in the old pre-Reformed movements (Waldenses, Wicclef, Hus etc.); it shows how the historical Church changed even the Commandments of God, regarding the cult of images and the gradual replacing of the Biblical Sabbath by the Roman Sabbath (Sun-day). If this is comic, then let all people read this „comic” book and see for themselves how „funny” it sounds in the face of God’s Judgment. The Church who taught us history by instruments of torture, that still believes that she never made errors, has no right to tell us today what to believe. There is no truth in your affirmation that Adventists revere Ellen White as Jesus, or her books above the Holy Scriptures. If you love to be critical, or to make sport, you may find better candidates, or other topics. The Second Coming of Jesus is a serios one, not funny, despite all human errors regarding the time or the manner of His arrival. Best wishes.

  2. Adventists don’t pray for the Apocalypse… We pray to be Christlike, transformed into the likeness of our Savior… We live to passionately love and bless others by introducing them to their awesome God and Savior — the Healer and Restorer of ALL THINGS who does not want anyone to perish now, or in the final Apocalypse, but longs for everyone to come to Him…AND LIVE! — now and eternally! Respectfully yours…

    • Thats what Catholics do too as should all who consider themselves to be Chrisitian. The Catholic churuch is almost 2000 years old and so by now we have had a lot of Judas’s. People who don’t like the church will only see Judas, not the other 11.

    • dshamebo@yahoo.com

      May people have a distorted view of Adventists because they don’t read the the beliefs of Adventists, and compare it with Bible genuinely.
      You can read what Great Controversy and other books below and see the what Adventists say is true:
      http://www.whiteestate.org

      More about what Adventist believe:
      http://www.adventist.org/fileadmin/adventist.org/files/articles/official-statements/28Beliefs-English.pdf

    • The Israelites were told to hold the Passover every year also as a remembrance and because they did they paved the way for the fulfillment and understanding of Christ’s sacrificial death. The Jews who celebrated the Passover when Jesus fulfilled it could trace their religion back to those original Jews in the desert with Moses. For better or worse I am sticking with the ones that Jesus told to do the Eucharist as a remembrance for him, not a religion formed 1,800 years later.

  3. Adventist have NEVER prayed for the apocalypse! They Pray for the second coming of Jesus Christ our Lord and savior to take his followers home to heaven and a newly recreated new earth. We NEVER have worshiped Ellen White.
    Any one who reads any of her books will find that she always and only points the reader to Jesus Christ and his Love for us and his death on the cross to pay the price for our sins. Everyones sins not just Adventist.

    • Clyde, Catholics don’t worship the papacy or Mary either. Yet Adventists insist that we do despite the contrary evidence. White was a false prophet and plagiarist.

        • My closest friend is Adventist -and I have taught the Bible to several others- there’s no denying many SDAs worship the false prophetess Ellen G. White either, is there? You level a charge against Catholics (of which I am not one) while your denomination practices idolatry, too, dear stranger.

          Just an observation.

          • M J Spaulding

            I was an SDA from the time I was old enough to go to church until I was 45. In no time did I ever hear of anyone who worshiped Mrs White. They have no statues of her. They do not say prayers to her or ask her to intercede for them. They do, some of them, think she understood the Bible.

          • Well, I’m glad to hear it. But I’ve heard many a sermon in which she is quoted more frequently than the Bible. I’ve personally taught several Adventist women who were ignorant of what the Bible says because all they’ve ever been taught is EGW, “Spirit of Prophecy, ladies and gentlemen. Page 348.” Hungry souls longing for the meat of God’s Word, but receiving the equivalent of spiritual junk food taught by legalistic, deceived pastors, who will one day answer to the Lord for elevating the false prophetess above the Word of God…I pity them…

          • M J Spaulding

            J.E.N.
            When my dad was preaching for the SDA he was told NOT to teach EGW but to preach from the Bible. And in all the while I attended church I never heard a sermon that mentioned EGW.

            Now in Sabbath School where was usually SDA people only she was mentioned but not in church.
            M J Spaulding

          • Well, as is the case in many other denominations- there are churches that are more or less healthy. Sadly, it’s always the apostate churches in any denomination that cast a bad shadow on the good ones. As I mentioned, I have a close friend who is very balanced on the issue of EGW. Her husband, sadly, is not. And it pains me to tell you that I completely understand why many people believe that SDA is a cult. Many of its more zealous adherents truly behave like cult members, particularly on the issue of EGW, the IJ, and food….

          • Mr. J.E.N., you simply are misinformed or you love big lies. I was raised as an Adventist, I’m now 61, I visited many countries, but I didn’t even heard of Adventists worshipping Ellen White. We read and quote Ellen White, and we consider her writings as non-canonical inspired books, under the supreme authority of the Holy Scripture. No Adventist ever worshipped Ellen White. We do not pray Ellen White, we do not adorn our churches with her image, we do not pay any special homage. She is one of our main founding fathers, we appreciate her contribution to our church history, but nothing more. There are some minor schismatic Adventist groups who use her writings in a rather canonical manner, but neither those people „worship” E G White.

          • Mr. Laiu:

            Are you acquainted with all of the Adventists I am? Can you speak authoritatively for all in your sect? No. By their own admission, those Adventists I know and love dearly, rely not on the Holy Spirit to lead them into all truth, but the false prophetess Ellen G. White.

            Your ad hominem attack failed.

        • BTW,

          I understand that copyright laws were different in White’s day. I’ll give the her the benefit of the doubt there. To me, the real significance of her proven plagarism is that it proves she wasn’t inspired…AT ALL.

          • Dear Mr J.E.N. If this kind of „plagiarism… proves she wasn’t inspired”, it means that you are not conscious of two very important truths regarding the inspiration. First, not a few the Biblical authors, that have been indisputedly inspired, copied much text, word by word or paraphrasing from other canonical or non-canonical authors, without giving any credit: The Chronicler, some Prophets, the first three Evangelists (Matthew, Mark and Luke) etc. Second, the divine inspiration is not similar to the spirit-dictation in transe. The literary forms (language, style, genre, rhetoric etc.) and even various details of (secondary) information, do not belong to inspiration, but to each author. The author is inspired and consequently his/her message is inspired, not the words themselves. We are nor interested in the the Bible because of its literary originality, but we want the practical truth leading to eternal life.

      • I attended catholic school for girls before becoming a Seventh Day Adventist Cristian….All the theology classes I was required to take were about mass and Mary…the Eucharist and not really about the Bible. I was required to make a confession and I told my priest that I heard the Sabbath is Saturday…. he said it is true that sabbath is Saturday but the catholic church changed it to Sunday…the priest converted me to Adventist!

    • Chris Schaeffler

      @clyde; You quote: We NEVER have worshiped Ellen White.
      I quote: In every worship we quote and we glorify Ellen White.
      And I will add; against her declared will, according her scriptures.

      • Quoting Ellen White is not worshiping her any more than quoting another author. Quoting is not equivalent to worship. It is not within Seventh-day Adventist Theology to glorify, or even elevate Ellen White to anything more than a human. We worship God, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, three in One! Nothing else, no statues of anybody in our courtyards, no idols we need to touch, no one to pray to except God!

        • Chris Schaeffler

          @andrew: Youi quote: “It is not within Seventh-day Adventist Theology to glorify, or even elevate Ellen White to anything more than a human.”
          That’s theoretically correct! The “official” Adventist theology is in contradictory with the practice and position of the majority of Adventist church members. Go forward and teach the “official” theology, and print it one and one in Church periodicals. Thanks.

          • This is printed in Church Periodicals all the time. Even in our textbooks. I don’t know how we can determine what percentage hold her higher than she should be, but I don’t know that we can even say most. Unless all the places I work just happen to be the exception. I think a bigger problem is just the opposite, that people don’t know very much about her at all.

          • Chris Schaeffler

            @andrew: Please give me 10 titles of articles in SDA periodicals between 2005 and 2013 indicating, what you claim. Thanks

          • The irony of making this excuse that “not all SDA’s consider all of EGW writings inspired” — is the fact that she herself claimed all her writings were 100% inpired. Ellen set the bar that high on herself. And that means, if there is any one thing SDA’s today do not agree with — then they need to renounce all of her writings.

          • Robin, I believe you and I’m curious where I can find the quote from Ellen White saying that she was inspired? Please advise.

          • J.E.N. — Here is the EGW quote…

            “I am presenting to you that which the Lord has presented to me. I do not write one article in the paper expressing merely my own ideas. They are what God has opened before me in vision — the precious rays of light shining from the thrones.” Selected Messages, Book 1 page 27

            If this is true… then every word EGW wrote must be obeyed as if it had equal authority as the Bible. The volume of her writings exceed the entire Bible. They are all packed with detailed rules for every area of life. The pharisees “heaped up burdens too great for men to bear” — that was bad. The mass of rules heaped into EGW’s writings — horrendous! When it comes to heaping up burdens — she makes the Pharisees look like mere schoolyard bullies!

          • Robin,

            Thanks for the information. You said that you grew up SDA, what was it that opened your eyes to their false teaching and error? I’m curious because I have a good friend who grew up SDA and is married to a very legalistic SDA. As she’s gotten to know other non-Adventist believers she’s been drawn by the love and grace of Christ in them. Her husband holds so tightly to E.G.W. that its been a real turnoff for her. At times he’s only permitted the children to eat twice a day because E.G.W. recommends that. It’s been a painful and difficult marriage for her, but for as much as she wants freedom she’s bound by fear of losing her salvation, losing her family and community, and realizing that everything she’s believed (the foundations of her faith) is basically a lie. She’s also mentioned that Ellen was correct about all of her nutrition info – she must have been a prophet. And so she swings back and forth, which has created havoc in her life mentally and emotionally.

            Any way, I’m curious about your story and what you might say to some one like her.

          • J.E.N. — I walked away from all religion when I left home as a teenager. Because of Adventist doctrine, I was convinced I would never “make it to heaven” no matter how hard I tried. I was so young — with so many sins already added up — I just couldn’t see myself able to improve my record enough to be approved of God.

            Right before I turned 30, I asked the Lord to show me He was real. I didn’t trust anyone but Him to show me the truth. I did have some influence with a family my sister married into that were “Pentecostal” — laying on hands and praying in tongues over my sister and husband’s marital problems. My sister said she felt so loved by God. She said the warmth & acceptance she felt by the Spirit God was irresistible. I immediately went to the Word of God to see if it was scriptural. I had only vaguely heard of “speaking in tongues.”

            Right after I had been baptized as a child, I began to read the Book of Acts. I was sitting in the SDA Church at the time. It puzzled me when I came to the verses that mentioned new believers speaking in tongues & prophesying upon receiving the Holy Ghost. So, I tugged on my mother’s arm to ask her what it meant. But, my mother told me, “Oh, those men had to ‘learn’ foreign languages in order to preach. I remember it not fitting what I was reading — but, I didn’t pursue anything. Even at age ten I knew those men didn’t learn anything. And I knew they were not speaking a message to preach to anyone.

            So, when I went back to the Word at age thirty with the same question, I was determined to believe only what the Holy Spirit showed me. I quickly found the experience to be scriptural upon conversion. I turned from that to intensely desiring to have that experience for myself. I spent two months pursuing God for this baptism. I was so thirsty for it — I was determined to not let anything stop me from getting exactly what they got in the first century.

            During this time, the Lord met me where I was. I walked into a 7-Eleven to buy milk for my children. I put the gallon on the counter and the clerk just ignored it. He looked at me and asked, “Are you a Christian?!” I was faced for the first time — since asking Christ back into my life — to confess Him. I said, “Well yeah, I guess I am.” But, that was not enough for this guy. He then asked, “Have you spoke in tongues yet?” And I said, “Well, I’ve been trying to do that.” He simply replied with a wink & smile, “Don’t worry–you will.”

            All my life I had only once heard of the term “speaking in tongues!” And now, the very few weeks I have been seeking the Lord for that blessing — I get this word of faith that I will receive it, I have no idea if this man was just a Christian obeying the Holy Ghost. For all I know, he was an “Angel sent unaware.” The fact is, that what he said put the faith in me to receive it. I knelt down in my private bedroom and trusted the Lord to fill me — and He wonderfully met me right then and there.

            I’m telling you this because that is what it took to remove the scales from my eyes. After I received this blessing, I just couldn’t get enough of the Word. The Holy Spirit gently revealed God’s grace to me. I could actually feel Him grieving if I even questioned my eternal security. Only with the help of my Comforter was I able to believe what I was reading — literally! Even though I do not claim this baptism necessary for salvation — i do believe it will break the burdensome yoke of Adventism. That’s how it happened for me.

            I know this is not how it happens for everyone who has left Adventism. If your friend needs help — but is fearful of this baptism — I would suggest sending the Proclamation Magazine published by Colleen Tinker. It’s an excellent resource for Adventists who are questioning their faith. Here is the link:

            http://www.proclamationministries.org/

            I hope this helps — God Bless!

          • That’s a fascinating story, Robin. I hope it’s alright that I ask you another question? You are so knowledgeable. What would you say to someone who believes that because EGW was correct about health (“How could she have known smoking was wrong unless she was a prophetess? Everyone of that time thought it was alright..and “well, the studies show that vegetarianism and veganism are healthier for you”)? I have a gut level reaction, but I’m curious about what yours is.

          • My answer to that is simply to say that it’s a moot point. Even if JezebEllen was correct about her health reform teachings, it does not prove they were from God. A great deal of her health teachings were proven to be plagiarized off of medical papers that were on the cutting edge at that time.

            Jezebellen put a great focus on bodily issues [i.e. the flesh] as being essential to the NT Gospel. Yet, such ideas are not supported by the NT. First, Jesus condemned the Pharisees for thinking it was all about “cleaning up the outside of the vessel” when the true need has been the human heart in need of a spiritual cleansing from within. Second, the apostles likewise supported this way of thinking. In Acts 15, they unanimously concluded it not necessary to bind the believing Gentiles to the Jewish laws — which would certainly have included meats & Sabbaths, Third, Paul said the Kingdom of God had nothing to do with meat or drink [i.e. what we put into our body] Rom 14:17. And he had a very cavalier attitude toward those who put emphasis on the body — “Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them” 1Cor 6:13. The idea here is that, since we know the body will perish anyhow, we should instead focus on the spiritual — building up treasures in heaven to receive as reward after this physical life. Fourth, Jesus said there was “NOTHING” that can enter the mouth and defile you Mk 7:18-23. Now, this was a radical way of teaching for any Jew. Yet “Nothing” — means nothing. The issue that led up to Him saying this was “unwashed hands” — but, the all-encompassing teaching was all-inclusive.

            Last, Paul said those who put such focus on the body are only teaching the “wisdom of the world” — Col 2:20-23. “Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
            Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.”

            Not even the meat laws of the OT can be ascribed to health purposes. God simply gave them to Israel to keep that nation separate from other nations — no more and no less. Now that there is no more need for that separation [Acts 10] there would likewise no more need for the laws that were built into the Old Covenant system designed to ensure that separation Lev 20:23-26,

            All this is evidence that proves anyone who puts focus on the body as an essential part of the Gospel to be — FALSE!

          • That’s a fascinating story, Robin. I hope it’s alright that I ask you another question? You are so knowledgeable. What would you say to someone who believes that because EGW was correct about health she MUST have been a prophetess.

            “How could she have known that smoking was harmful unless she was a prophetess? Everyone of that time thought it was just fine..”

            And

            “Well, the studies show that vegetarianism and veganism are healthier for you”)?

            I’m curious what your gut-level reaction is.

            Thanks!

          • Chris, Normally, we can find the information we desire to find if we really want to look for it. I am not your research assistant. If you want to find it, you can, look for yourself. I read it often, but I am not counting :)

          • I have been an adventist for 75 years. Been a member of 10 adventist churchs in six states. Been in church almost every Sabbath and have never found one Adventist that worship or prayed to Ellen White. Where you got that rediculous idea. You are the ONLY one I have ever heard to make such a statement. I don’t know any Adventist who even have a picture of her on display anywhere in their homes

          • Clyde, SDA’s do worship Ellen G. White. The term “worship” simply means to love, cherish & adore. You don’t have to get on physical knees in front of a statue of her to do that. SDA’s put EGW’s interpretation of scripture above the actual text — thus putting her in place of the Holy Ghost. And that is a form of Ellen worship. Plus, they make “faith in Ellen” a condition for baptism. That again is a form of Ellen worship. Swooning when they pass around the Bible that Ellen allegedly held up in vision is another way SDA’s worship Ellen.

      • Clyde Kckinder

        Where in the world did you get that wrong Idea that Mrs. White is read and Quoted in every Church servic as doctrine. I have Been a SDA for over 75 years. Been in church almost every sabbath. Worked as a minister for 47 years and never heard heard her messages used as doctine. over and over again as in Her book Great Controversy page 205, she states, “The Bible and the Bible only, as the rule of faith and duty” and her very last words tto the church was as she held the Bible up over her head was, “I recommend this book as your only guide”> Oh, yes, by the way, she never held an official office in the church. If you would like to really know her teaching on Jesus, I recommend that you read her Books, “Steps to Christ” and “Desire of Ages” If you do, you will never again question that her one perpuse was to lead people to Jesus Christ.
        ALSO, not eating meat is NOT a doctine nor even a standerd of the SDA church. It is a heath princple That the church teachs for those who want to live a longer and better life here on earth. Just as with smoking and drinking. It has not to do with Salvation.

      • I don’t know who you are quoting. In my 75 years as a member of the SDA church, I have NEVER hear anyone, pastors or layity, Ever say or even hint that we worship or glorify, Mrs White. At some time they might quote from her writtings, or Billy Graham, or someone’s statement that supports the point they are trying to make. But to glorify- never. She was a human being (a forgiving sinner) just like you and I

  4. OK lets all be nice. None of the legions of Ra or religions have everything right. Unfortunately SDA is going astray and gradually acting like other protestant’s which are gradually returning to the mother church, however this is a very exciting time to be living because we have more access to information that ever before, for those that take the time to pray and read for themselves. We need to step outside the box. We are not dumb like sheep but it takes time to untwist those preconceived ideas. Well to make a very long story very short, we should be up lifting each other and seeking a close relationship with our maker as opposed to any church or assembly. True prophecy is based on helping a brother or sister see where they are stepping outside the so called 10 commandments (if they even know them anymore). To put more simple Love (do not be hateful). If you hate in any form it is not love and you have missed the target or sinned. May you all be blessed in hearing this word LOVE.

    • Les, Protestants show little sign of returning to the Catholic Church. Catholicism DOES teach the same 10 commandments, if you look in our catechism. Yet Adventists falsely claim we do not. That is not nice. It is hateful.

      • Fr., lighten up on the rhetoric, Just because someone disagrees with You does not make them hateful. and by the way your church’s commandments do not read the same as the protestant versions, Your pope Constantine claimed to have the power to change them as Her act of Her ecclesiastical power and authority thus fullfililng the prophecy of Daniel 7:25 “thinking to change times and laws” Sunday is the catholic churches mark of authority… the church is above the Bible, and this transference of the sabbath observance is proof of that fact”- Catholic Record, London, Ontario, Sept. 1. 1923.

        • dshamebo@yahoo.com

          May people have a distorted view of Adventists because they don’t read the beliefs of Adventists, and compare it with Bible genuinely.
          You can read Great Controversy and other wonderful books below and see for yourself as
          http://www.whiteestate.org

          More about what Adventist believe:
          http://www.adventist.org/fileadmin/adventist.org/files/articles/official-statements/28Beliefs-English.pdf

          666:
          http://biblelight.net/666.htm#OFFICIAL

      • Fr. J, I am an Adventist pastor and I want to affirm part of what you are saying. Our differences on numbering the commandments does make some believe it’s a deliberate attempt to deceive, but you are right – every Catholic translation of the Bible has the same commandments as a Protestant translation. The Catholic sequence follows Deut. 5, whereas our traditional numbering follows Ex. 20. Both are biblical. I think it is the “abbreviation” that has appeared in some catechisms that bothers some of us.
        On Ellen White, I will also admit that I have spoken with follow Adventists who give her “infallibility” more often than Catholic Popes have invoked that doctrine since 1870. It’s a error, to be certain – but then I hold the same for papal infallibility. :-)
        On “worshiping” Mary vs. “venerating” Mary: this distinction will remain “indistinct” to outsiders like Adventists. Once we bump into titles like “co-redemptrix”, (yes, I know that is not a formal doctrine – yet) we sense that instead of honoring her, we would be diluting the honor due Jesus our true Redeemer.
        And of course, soul sleep or Christian mortalism was declared to be a heresy by the early church fathers. Since we continue in this “heresy”, it makes any relationship with Mary highly suspect, until after the Resurrection. (Ah! Wasn’t the bodily assumption of Mary made dogma by use of Papal Infallibility?)
        So yes, by orthodox Christian standards (an orthodoxy that venerates the heavenly ministry of the saints) Ellen White would of necessity be labeled a false prophet – or worse.
        In spite of her fallibility, I’ve still been blessed in my Christian walk by her insights. The gifts of the Spirit promised in Scripture never came with promises of infallibility. But they are still wonderful gifts.

      • The problem is, In, “Converts Catechism of the Catholic Church” page 50 (I think) is that the Catholic Church claims that God has given her the power or authority to change the solemnity of the Sabbath day from the seventh day to the first day of the week. This is not hateful to point out. It is simply our attempt to proclaim what we see as truth.

      • In the carechism I have of Catholic Doctrine, it deletes the second commandment completely and splits the tenth into two parts. It also says that Saturday is the Sabbath, “a day we never keep”. So it does seem there is a difference in the ten commandments as taught in the Catholic catechism vs the book of Exodus.

      • Dear Fr. J., YOu may simply compare the ten commandments in the Caechism with their original form in the Bible (Exodus 20). But this is not the true issue. If God’s commandment is faithfully written in catechism, but is altered in the dogmatic explanation, the result is that the Commandment is changed. The fourth Commandment (which is counted as the third one, in the Catholic tradition — no problem), commands the sanctification and observation of the seventh-day Sabbath, that was given at Creation together with the seven-days week, while the Church’s interpretation commands instead to keeps the Sunday and various calendar’s feasts, condemning the Biblical, original Sabbath that was kept by Jesus and his followers, as „Judaizing”. Is this a minor point or adiaphora? And what about the second commandment, which is first in the Catholic tradition? How cood the Church sanctify the cult of saints and images, against the clear prohibition made by God and respected by the Old Church at least three centuries. I do not speak about didactical or ornamental use of images, but of the liturgical, materialist-mystical even magical and superstitious use of these images, which is essentially pagan, even though the form has some Christian explanation.

        • You both miss it. The ceremonial observance of Sabbath is fulfilled in Christ — when we enter into belief Heb 4:7-10. Those who continue to observe the Old Covenant version — Saturday or Sunday — actually break this New Covenant Sabbath Rest Heb 4:11. Enjoying a fulfilled rest is entering into the substance of which the weekly was only a shadow Col 2:16.

          • Hi Robin,

            My dear friend is beginning to see some disturbing things about Adventism, you and I have corresponded in the past and I know that you would understand them and are very knowledgeable. Would you be open to speaking with her?

  5. …. what Clyde Kinder said, I want to reiterate. The word Apocalypse as we use it in this American culture, implies destruction and death. Adventists do not look forward to destruction and death. We look forward to the 2nd Coming of Jesus. We look forward to living in heaven. We look forward to an earth made new… a world in which death/destruction/pain/sickness/war, will cease to exist. That is our hope.

  6. And this is why I have no use for organized relgion — get a group together, using the same code words and jargon long enough, and convince them the they’re more right than everybody else, and they simply cannot function without surfeiting on smugness. This article was written only to be self-congratulatory at others’ expense, and this is not behavior that Christ engaged in.

    Anticipating an apocalypse and preparing for it is not the same as praying for one. The Millerites thought Jesus would return in 1844, and went nuts trying every way they could to prepare for it — selling their goods, not venturing outdoors, and becoming very embarrassed when October 23 rolled round and the world was still there. The Adventist movement that grew out of that disappointment has made it a point to never attempt to predict the exact day of Christ’s return again, but to live their lives as though that return is imminent (hardly a revolutionary idea, among Christians, no?), a distinction completely lost on the writer of this piece and fully half the commentors.

    • Disorganized religion ends us back into chaos. Without a formal religion you have no way of preserving and transmitting what the religion is all about. I wouldn’t want open heart surgery done by a doctor who did not receive an organized medical education, who knows what wacky ideas he/she could have. What true faith offers is much more important than open heart surgery.

    • It was not the Seventh-Day Adventist Church that peached the 2nd coming of Christ in 1844, but sunday keepers from many different denominations. The Seventh-day Adventist church did not exist till several years later. True, they did grow out of some of those who believed he was coming in 1844. But William Miller and others lead in that movement never become SDA’s, It was a very small group who keep studing to find out why they were wrong. The first SDA church was a very small group in Washington, New Hampshire of less than 25 members. It now has grow to over 17 million in almost ever country in the world. We still believe that Jesus will return to take his people home. I am very disappointed in any of our leaders who are embarrassed that Christ has not returned yet. We do know he will return when HIS time is ready.
      While we do not know when he will return, but we do know that his return is certain and we want to be ready when ever he does come. Also, we will have better and happier lifes living as he ask us to live.

        • Something very important did happen in 1844. All I was saying that that Seventh-day Adventist were not the ones predicting Christ return in 1844. They weren’t around for several years later. It was people from many different churchs that worsheiped on Sunday

    • Quoting you “This article was written only to be self-congratulatory at others’ expense, and this is not behavior that Christ engaged in.”

      I agree completely.

    • I understand your frustration, but you are wrong in your assessment of “organized religion,” or church denominations – let’s call it what it is.

      Friend, denominations are not created just to try to get more people to believe what they teach just to grow their numbers. They were created because, as each person in life must determine for his or herself what he or she believes in, people searched for others who believed as they did and those people came together and began to build churches and tell others what they believed in, lest others choose to believe that way and join them. God commands us to preach the Gospel to others.

      Other denominations have come from groups that already belonged to other denominations and broke off from those denominations for any number of reasons, to form their own new denomination.

      Admittedly, that is a very simplistic view of why different denominations exist. However, based upon your complaint, it is important for you to know how the “organized religion” came to be – by regular people like you who shared a belief system and wanted to worship together, and not by some great and intolerant religious system that set up house only to get more people to THEIR denomination at any cost while tearing down others.

      There are precious few denominations – of the major ones in the USA only one comes to mind – that preach that if you don’t become a member of their denomination that you are going to hell for it. No other denominations preach such intolerance.

      And, I would encourage you that if you try out a church of a particular denomination and they tear down other beliefs and churches, that you don’t walk, but run from that group until you find one with God’s people who preach God’s Word.

      It is good that you have noticed that different denominations have different beliefs; sometimes they have the same beliefs and just call them something different, and sometimes they have specific beliefs unique to their denomination. That is just as it should be.

      People on earth today are so blessed to have so many different denominations from which to choose. You can make up your mind about what you believe in where God is concerned, and if you look you will find a denomination that believes the exact same thing and then you can find a church within that denomination to be your home church.

      Just because different denominations have different belief systems doesn’t mean that they are tearing other denominations down. Denominations don’t get people and “…convince them the they’re more right than everybody else…”

      That, along with the statement of, “I just don’t like organized religion” is usually what is claimed by people who don’t go to church and want to rationalize their failure to follow God’s word by making it sound like they are justified in not going to church because it is somebody else’s (“organized religion’s”) fault. Often, the excuses are something about the denominations putting down other faiths, (which they don’t do), or that the people in churches are all hypocrites, (which they are).

      Every Christian in a church is a hypocrite, because we preach that everyone should follow Christ’s example on earth and live our lives as Christ did. However, we are all human, and despite what we preach, we all fall short every day – every one of us.

      So, we preach that everyone should live a certain way (like Christ), but none of those who are preaching it do it successfully. We are all hypocrites. And, we invite any other flawed, imperfect person, especially those who have issues and tons of baggage, to join us in our efforts to come as close as we can in living what we preach. The best part of being a Christian hypocrite is that we are forgiven by a great and generous God when we fall short.

      It is God’s expressed will that one should find a group of believers to come together and worship Him as one. His command is that Christians come together to worship Him, and not forsake their gathering “as the heathen do.”

      One last thing. I think this was a very well-written article, not unkind to any group. It was written as from an observer’s view, which is the way it is supposed to be written.

      • “Every Christian in a church is a hypocrite, because we preach that everyone should follow Christ’s example on earth and live our lives as Christ did. However, we are all human, and despite what we preach, we all fall short every day – every one of us.”

        I beg to differ, this statement is in error…. there’s a BIG DIFFERENCE between being a “Christian hypocrite” and just a plain old “sinner”. A hypocrite says they believe one thing and on purpose does the opposite. A “Christian sinner” misses the mark of practicing what he/she preaches due to human imperfection and error, NOT because of being an outright hypocrite…

  7. Chris Schaeffler

    Adventists look forward to the soon return of Jesus Christ as prophesied and as he himself promised, but do not set any date for this glorious event when Jesus comes to take home all who accept him as their Lord.
    For the Seventh-day Adventist Church, probably no word from the Lord is more significant or has played a greater role in her history than Revelation 14:6, 7.
    Adventists are evangelical Christians, holding the orthodox doctrines of the Trinity, the deity of Christ, and salvation only through His merits. If apocalyptic shapes the presentation of the Adventist message, the heart of that message is the good news common to mainline Christian bodies.
    This 150th anniversary year is a time for Adventists to review their roots, consider the nature of the church, and to look to the future. What has emerged from these reflections is the genius of the church as a movement of hope: Seventh-day Adventists are a people of hope.

  8. JeNeSuisPersonne

    Oh my. Seriously? For what possible reason would anyone want to debate details of any religion? Time to sign off and go help someone in need. I need no God, Pope, Mother-of-Jesus or Prophet/ess to know THAT.

  9. If you don’t believe in God then you would have no debate … If you do believe in God then if ALL religions / Bible believers should quit skipping around to verses you like to fit your case.
    Jesus said in John Chapter 6 very clearly about his REAL flesh & blood and that it is his body and blood and that you MUST eat it and drink it and the funny thing is in John 6:66 (notice the number) and the ONLY Chapter in the entire New Testament that has 6th chapter and 66 verse (666) and THEY WALKED AWAY and never returned to follow Jesus again and Paul reaffirms it in 1 Corinthians 10&11… How can anyone argue this ? Also only ONE Gospel says Jesus said ” Do this in remembrance of me “… Do I believe he said it ? Yes but that changes NOTHING Notta what Jesus said in John 6 & Paul 1 Corirhians… This is how Scriptures get twisted by men and that started with Martin Lurher the FALSE teacher and many more in last 500 years.
    Jesus says follow the Apostles … Hear them and do what they do… so to follow the Apostles you must follow who THEY taught and what ALL these men did… Read the Early Church Fathers and learn the truth about the Eucharist and everything else Jesus taught the Apostles and what the Apostles taught the Early Church Fathers and so on and on and on for 2000 years not 1200 like Muslim under the False Phophet and not 500 like Protestant the False Teacher ….you will become Catholic and find Peace with Jesus & yourself like you’ve never felt or never will.
    Remember it’s these Apostles who did / taught THEN wrote the Bible later !!!
    God Bless and may you receive the Spirit of Truth to get ALL truth John 16:5-15 !!!

    • Look up the words REAL & INDEED sometime … The very words Jesus used in John Chapter 6:53-69… Then seek ALL truth from your mind / heart / soul and let your pride GO !!!!

      • What is the number of the Anti-Christ ? 666…. Who do you follow when you walk away from Jesus ? The Anti-Christ …. What did Jesus very disciples do that had been following him for a long time and trusting him / believing every word he said to do and believing he was the Christ / Savior up to that day in John 6:66 do when he said You MUST EAT My FLESH & DRINK My BLOOD ???
        They WALKED away in John 6:66 and followed the Anti-Christ… Now many since Mohamad 600AD & Martin Luther 1400AD that believe in Jesus a certain way or that he is the Christ the Savior and say they want to have a relationship with Jesus etc etc just like those men up to that day did just as you do….. They did just as you are doing in John 6:66 you have walked away and say this is such a hard saying – how can we take him serious….. Now I ask you – who do you think you now follow ?

        • Mr JT, I live in a country with an Eastern Orthodox majority. They are alike anti-Protestant as you are, and obsessed with a magical understanding of the sacraments. They also claim the true Apostolic succession, against any Papal or Roman Catholic claim. I guess the common problem is human tradition and human authority placed above the Word of God. While the Bible speaks of the Antichrist Roman beast in Revelation 13, with its number 666, it is interesting also that the Greek Biblical word PARADOSIS (tradition / treachery) is numerologically 666. This is just a reminder, not exegesis.

      • “The very words Jesus used in John…” Frankly, JT, and I’m not alone in this, I doubt very many of the verses attributed to Jesus in the Gospel of John were actually spoken by him. In writing the last gospel admitted to the NT canon, John was far more concerned with christology than history.

        The Jesus of John’s gospel, with his high-sounding rhetoric and aggressive assertion of his divinity, bears little resemblance to the Jesus of the synoptic gospels. I sometimes wonder if the people who worship the “paper pope” of the BIble have ever gone to the trouble of reading it.

    • Please remember that when John wrote the Gospel of John, he did not divide it into chapters and verses. Neither did Jesus when he spoke the words. The assignment of chapter and verse numbers comes much later, and so your application of 666 has no validity in association with this text. Otherwise, we could also take Ps. 66:6 and attempt to apply it, for instance.

  10. 150 years is not even a drop in the bucket compared to eternity. Noah preached for 120 years. Nothing is new under the sun. Heaven’s concept of time is vastly different from ours. I agree with Clyde. I don’t pray for the end of the world. It’s going to happen though. You should be thankful that someone is trying to tell you about it.

  11. In all honesty, there is so much attempt to point out the fact that the Adventist church will not be celebrating on the 150th birthday of the church, or is disappointed. Let us make one thing clear, we may love our church, but celebrating its’ birth is not the focus of our church, nor has it ever been, as far as I can tell. Our celebration is expressed in the repentance of rebellious men and women. Our celebration is expressed in our joy of sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Our grand celebration is reserved for the day we will see the Only Begotten Son of God coming in the Clouds of Glory! That is not prayer for death and destruction, but instead, it is joy in seeing the end of sin and suffering, and the reunion with God, our Creator, our Redeemer! We will celebrate, when every eye shall see Him when He comes with a shout and trump of Angels, and the Dead in Christ shall rise, and those who remain will be caught up to be with Him forever! Amen!

  12. Seventh-Day Adventists deviated from the true Gospel right after the Great Disappointment. The Investigative Judgment doctrine was created as an excuse for that false date. Instead of it being the date of Christ’s return, they claimed a judgment of all Christians began in heaven instead. This alleged unseen event allowed them to claim the date was still correct — but that only the event had been wrong. But, this judgment has Jesus in heaven judging Christians — by their works — as to who and who isn’t “worthy of His Blood.”

    So, when an SDA speaks of “grace” — it is not the same “grace without merit” that Paul preached. The Investigative Judgment teaches they have to earn Christ’s grace for salvation — which the Apostle Paul says “is no grace at all.” Paul speaks of only one way to “fall from grace” — and that is to turn back to trusting in the law for salvation. The SDA focus on Sabbath-keeping and meat laws as essential makes them guilty of that same Galatian heresy.

    Shortly after 1844, SDA’s also had to come up with an excuse for what happens to the soul of a believer who has died. Their own people began to question Ellen White as to where all the saints who died before 1844 went. Where is the Apostle Paul? Where is Peter? John? etc. The questions went all the way up to, “Where’s my great-grandfather Jed who loved Jesus and died in 1842?” Ellen White could never tolerate having any of them believe those who had departed had already gone to heaven. That idea was a threat to her alleged Investigative Judgment doctrine. As with all lies, one lie begets another. The soul-sleep doctrine was created as the excuse for what happens to the soul of a believer — all in order to preserve the Investigative Judgment. The SDA belief system all stands or falls on that heresy,

    So, Ellen White threw the true Gospel under the bus in order to save face for the 1844 error. Then, she continued to cover that error by creating another heresy. Sadly, SDA’s continue to perpetuate these excuses to cover up the same lies to this day. The motive to “save face” still prevails among them.

    The SDA Church still needs to repent of the 1844 date-setting error. They still need to renounce the Investigative Judgment doctrine. And they need to repent of the soul sleep doctrine that affords them the ability to perpetuate the alleged Investigative Judgment. Until they do so, evangelical churches need to put the SDA’s right back into the cult category where they belong!

    • I see many errors in what you have written, but I will point out just one, which may or may not help you think about your evaluation of the church and the development of its’ theology. There was no Seventh-day Adventist Church in 1844. The Seventh-day Adventist Church has never set a date for the second coming of Christ. What you are confusing is the Millerite movement, in which vast numbers of Americans became followers of, and after their disappointment, numerous groups came out of. You may not agree with Seventh-day Adventist Theology, and that is your right, but you are not correct on the roots of much of the theology you have quoted.

      • I do not confuse the SDA Church with the Millerite movement. I was myself raised in an SDA Church. So, I am by no means ignorant of its history. Even though the SDA Church did not exiist until after the Great Disappointment — EGW clealy used that 1844 date to perpetuate the error. It was Ellen G. White who claimed the 1844 date was correct — saying only the event was wrong.

        Again, EGW threw the gospel under the bus to “save face” when Christ failed to return in 1844.-cteating the false Investigative Judgment doctrine. And she later created the soul sleep doctrine when her Investigative Judgment dictrine was threatened by inquiring membes.

        • If you can go through the study of the prophecies, and you are comfortable that the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation don’t bring us to the date 1844, that is between you and God. But it is fascinating that not only did the Millerites come up with this date. There are documented over 80(?) persons and periodicals from many different faiths who proclaimed 1844 or a near date as the date when something would happen. Not all agreed about what that event would be, and remember, that was before Millerism. Even a Muslim leader, with no connections to Miller, and no connections to the United States, came up with the date of Oct. 22, 1844 as the end. How did he come up with that date? I don’t know. Millerites and Seventh-day Adventists are just a drop in the bucket in comparison with how much of the world believe(d) something happened in 1844.

          • You first tried to defend SDA’s by denying it was invikved with that false 1844 date. Now, you’re defending dhem by trying to give that false date some credence. Just like your false prophetess — you speak out of both sides of your mouth.

            Thst prophesies of Daniel is a prophecy of days — literal days. The first 69 weeks were fulfilled as literal days for the nation of Israel. This is why Jesus chastised them for not knowing it to be the time of His visitation. The clock for the 70th week did not switch to years. The clock stopped for Israel when Messiah was cut off. The Church is a Gentile Age that has no part of that time line. It is decreed solely to the nation of Israel.

            The 1260-day clock / 7yr Tribulation resumes in Rev 7. The Church as the Great Multitude is taken to heaven — at the same time 144k Jews are sealed for physical protection on earth. The 70th week of literal days begins at this point.

            1844 came and left without incident.

          • No, your first defense was to deny the SDA Church had anything to do with the 1844 date — on the basis that they had not yet formed. I proved that was a faulty excuse because the Church was founded on the Investigative Judgment heresy which is based on that date. It was all about saving face then — and so it is still to this very day. You — and all SDA’s — are perpetuating that lie.

        • You people are so mistaken on Ellen White. She is not the one who tought the investgative Judgement, or the Soul Sleep (not our term). It was other biblical scholars who descovered this teaching. (You give her way to much credit) Her burden was on the gospel of Jesus Christ and his love and sacrifice for our sins. His love for mankinder and their love nfor each othe

          • Clyde, you are only half right. It was Hiram Edson who came up with the Investigatiive Judgment excuse for the 1844 failure. But, it was Ellen White who validated it through vision. It would have gone nowhere had she not done so. This is the way it was with all new SDA light/heresy. Ellen’s Masonic male cronies would come up with an idea and get it validated through her alleged visions.

            EGW’s approval of the Investigative Judgment proves her “burden” had nothing to do with the true gospel of Jesus Christ. The Bible says we are saved by grace through Him without merit. The Investigative Judgment doctrine teaches the polar opposite. The true Gospel of Christ was thrown under the bus to justify the Investigative Judgment lie. EGW made herself an enemy of that Gospel the day she gave credence to that 1844 excuse.

    • Robin, your SDA history is 90% imagination. We really reject the universal (pagan and “Christian”) doctrine of the soul’s inherent immortality, we really have adopted the belief in a pre-Advent Judgment in favor of the believers, we truly oppose any form of „cheap grace” Gospel and accept instead the Biblical Gospel which is also related to our sanctification, not justification only. But its is true that most of our doctrines, if not all, have not been brought in our midst by Ellen White. She shared and confirmed a lot of our pioneers’ beliefs, but in most cases she was not the source or the first promotor.

      • Yes, I am fully aware that Adventists believe in the “soul sleep” doctrine. It’s just another one of their heresies — even shared by their twisted JW cousins. Two ambiguous verses in the OT are used by both groups to “prove” the soul does not exist after death. Problem is, you have to ignore — or rationalize away — the hundreds of verses that clearly say otherwise.

        The story of the Rich Man & Lazarus is just one example. The common argument that “it’s just a parable” is a moot point. Jesus never used literal falsehoods to portray spiritual truths in any of His parables. He only represented truth with truth. Abraham — who died — was in Paradise. Both the Rich Man & Lazarus knew who he was. Abraham spoke to both of them. The Rich Man & Lazarus were able to speak to one another. They could both feel, see, hear and speak. The Rich man had brothers still living that he wanted to warn to not come to the same place. Jesus spoke of this occurrence in the past tense — as something that has already happened. These facts exclude any temptation you may have to claim it prophetically occurs after Christ’s return.

        The soul sleep doctrine was created by JezebEllen to “protect” her false Investigative Judgment doctrine — because that doctrine can’t tolerate the idea of any person being in heaven prior to 1844. It was contrived all to protect the first lie — Investigative Judgement. As is the nature of all lies — one big lie begets another.

        Joh_14:16 (KJV) And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever. [The Holy Ghost does not dwell in dead bodies. The Holy Ghost cannot both leave you when you die and still “abide with you forever”]

        Joh_11:26 (KJV) And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? [To be in a state of non-existence upon death for even one second — is to be dead.]

        Your “pre-Advent Judgment in favor of the believers” – is not in favor of believers. It claims a judgment of our works to determine worthiness of heaven. It claims we must prove ourselves worthy of God’s grace. Yet, Paul says there is no such thing. He says it’s either 100% grace or 100% works that justifies us

      • Yes, I am fully aware that Adventists believe in the “soul sleep” doctrine. It’s just another one of their heresies — shared by their twisted cousins, the JW’s. Two ambiguous verses in the OT are used by both groups to “prove” the soul does not exist after death. Problem is, you have to ignore — or rationalize away — the hundreds of verses that clearly say otherwise.

        The story of the Rich Man & Lazarus is just one example. The common argument that “it’s just a parable” is a moot point. Jesus never used literal falsehoods to portray spiritual truths in any of His parables. He only represented truth with truth. Abraham — who died — was in Paradise. Both the Rich Man & Lazarus — who also died — knew recognized Abraham. Abraham spoke to both of them. The Rich Man & Lazarus were able to speak to one another. They could both feel, see, hear and speak. The Rich man had brothers still living that he wanted to warn to not come to the same place. Jesus spoke of this occurrence in the past tense — as something that had already happened. These facts exclude any temptation you may have to claim it prophetically occurs after Christ’s return.

        The soul sleep doctrine was created by JezebEllen — all to “protect” the Investigative Judgment doctrine. That doctrine cannot tolerate the idea of any person being in heaven prior to 1844. The Investigative Judgement was contrived to protect explain” the Great disappointment — the first lie. And, as is the nature of all lies — one big lie begets another. Hence soul sleep.

        Joh_14:16 (KJV) And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever. [The Holy Ghost does not dwell in dead bodies. The Holy Ghost cannot both leave you when you die and still “abide with you forever”]

        Joh_11:26 (KJV) And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? [To be in a state of non-existence upon death for even one second — is to be dead.]

        The “pre-Advent Judgment in favor of the believers” — as you put it — is not in favor of believers at all. It claims a judgment of our works to determine worthiness of heaven. It claims we must prove ourselves worthy of God’s grace. Yet, Paul says there is no such thing. He says it’s either 100% grace or 100% works that justifies. The one completely undoes the other… Rom_11:6 (KJV) And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

        The true judgment of believers is seen in 1Cor 3. HERE is where we are rewarded the level of our sanctification. It is not a judgment of our works to determine entry into heaven — but simply a judgment to determine our reward.AFTER we get there. Even the guy who has nothing left because he built his life on hay & stubble — will still be declared saved 1Cor 3:15.

        The Great White throne judgment cannot be the Investigative Judgment either. JezebEllen has the Investigative Judgment occurring since 1844 — and completed before Christ returns. But, scriptures do not show the Great White throne judgment occurring until AFTER the millennium Rev 20:11-15.

        “Cheap grace” is saying the price paid on the Cross was not sufficient!

  13. Andrew , please remember what you just said the next time you quote a chapter or verse to someone or you could fall under self contradiction… No matter how you try to twist it / bend it to your liking … You gotta admit pretty strange how the ONLY 6:66 in the entire New Testament just happens to be where Christ disciples left him over the Eucharist … Which just happens to be the biggest controversial issue in Christianity in 2000 years ! Notice all of John chapter 6 how it starts out how Jesus just happens to miraculously feed the 5000 people when there is no logic to how he can do it… Jesus has been feeding trillions his Body & Blood for 2000 years in this same miraculous way ever since the Last Supper….Praise God & Thank you Jesus :)

    • And billions have walked away on this Eucharistic issue in last 600 years. Again John 6:66 the ONLY 6:66 in the entire New Testament just happens to fall right into place over Jesus TRUE / INDEED / REAL / AMEN,AMEN I say .. All words spoken by Jesus Christ concerning eating his flesh & drinking his blood… But the Apostles didn’t walk away like the other disciples and Jesus showed them exactly how he was going to feed us his flesh & blood not much later at the last supper for 2000 years and counting…A true miracle just like the feeding of the 5000 thousand. If people would just realize Jesus gives us hint after hint after hint all through the Scriptures on what he is going to do just like the entire John 6 or in your case forget chapter & verse but Jesus still said it / did it and the Apostles followed it / did it / taught it / wrote it down and died for it !!! There is NO argument that can go against this unless it’s based on individual pride – which sounds a lot like Satan to me. Walk with Christ or walk with the Anti-Christ.. John 6:66… It’s Black & White no Grey area unless you make Jesus / Apostles / Early Church / Apostolic Fathers / Early Church Fathers etc all liars for this is what they ALL did / taught / believed until the false teacher Martin Luther came on the screen 1400 years later ( wow 1400) and cause of this false teacher you have billions teaching a lie. What a special GRACE bring missed by billions… Remember Jesus at last supper said : Take eat ALL of you / Take drink ALL of you that means for all ages and this is how / when only we all become a Royal Priesthood… For before the last supper only the High Priest could eat the Sacrifice but Jesus changed that being to ultimate high priest… Take eat ALL of you for this IS my body .. Take drink ALL of you for this IS my blood of the NEW Covenant. Andrew read John 16:5-15 and think and pray real hard about the TRUTH.
      God Bless !!!!!

    • I don’t normally quote scripture while making a big deal about if the mysterious numbers of 666 or any other sequence comes up. It just doesn’t work since it was not part of the original.

  14. Notice how the BIBLE in Jude talks about the false teachers in the LAST DAYS have become like Korah… Read Numbers 16 and did Korah do ? First Moses had already told Korah that it was okay to preach the word. Korah and everyone standing there were ALL people of GOD but that wasn’t good enough for Korah much like Martin Luther and so many who have fallen into his trap… So what did Moses tell Korah next after he had already told them they were people of God and that it was okay to preach to the assembly’s … Moses ask Korah next .. So Korah what have you AGAINST Aaron and WHY do you try to STEAL the Priesthood ? Hmmmm interesting isn’t it – that’s EXACTLY what Jude said in the last days false self appointed teachers would become like Korah- and try to steal the Priesthood which is exactly what Martin Luther did and why so many the last 600 years want to follow this self appointed MAN traditions when they can follow Christ and HIS appointed Church / Pope / Priests that has been carrying out what Jesus appointed them to do !! People just don’t get it you are not fighting against the Catholic Church you are fighting against GOD himself and in Numbers 16 you can find out what God did to Korah and his followers for trying to steal the Priesthood he appointed to Aaron just like fighting against the Apostles Preisthhood appointed by Jesus himself you are fighting him not the Catholic Church. The truth is out there if people will open their heart and drop their pride to receive the Spirit of Truth John 16:5-15 ! The Bible is Gods word and it’s all in their but trying to teach yourself or not following the truth from the beginning 2000 years ago not 100 or 200 or 500 is like trying to swim with no legs and arms…. Eventually your going to drown !!! There were others in the New Testatment who tried to start their own faith / religion and they failed also ! Read / Study but be honest with yourself for God knows your mind and heart even from the womb.

  15. After reading all the comments, I wish to share one of my most important faith experiences.
    In 1955, 10 years after WWII, I was living in Selesia, a province of westen Poland. In the month of November, I was traveling down a counrty road passing through fields of winter wheat when I came upon a short weathered granite cross.Suddenly a loud thundering voice announced: “THE LORD.” Immediately in the midst of a cloud formation over the cross, God the Father appeared with his right arm stretched over the cross as he said: “UNITY is my greatest concern.” It is time to ponder this message.

  16. Seventh Day Adventism is an aberrant religious sect, with many seriously errant extra-Biblical doctrines. As with other religious groups, there are many who sincerely love Christ and know Him as Savior. Unfortunately, though, there are just as many who hold idolatrously to the false teachings of Ellen G. White. So brainwashed are they, that when confronted with Biblical evidence of her error, they reply: “Well, she wasn’t a prophetess yet.” Sadly, these poor folks can’t see how blind they are… Many will tell you that she is just a great teacher who they admire. If that is so, then why the desperate, deceptive need to protect her? Criticize Ellen G. White and you will have a tiger on the tail.

    A serious head injury in her youth led to a miraculous recovery and prophetic visions. Truthfully, after reading the accounts of her miracles and visions etc., I sincerely suspect she was demon-possessed. So many false signs and wonders to deceive the innocent. Sadly, and it pains me to say this, but Adventists are some of the most Biblically ignorant people I have ever known. I have deeply loved and taught several. They can quote E.G.W. all day, but are clueless about what the Bible says.

    Why is this?

    Because rather than preaching the Word, many of their pastors preach vegetarianism.” Sadly, many poor people rely on this as proof of their holiness. Certainly this isn’t true of everyone, but many do. What’s even more horrendous, is that many are duped into believing that they will lose their salvation if they aren’t careful about what they eat, dare to wear jewelry, listen to christian music, or live in the City. But Christ says, “no one can pluck you out of My hand.” Believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit.

    My heart breaks for them, because I believe many are deceived. And so complete is the deception that they are afraid to question E.G.W teachings, because she said, that in the end times many would attack her.

    It pains me greatly to say this, but I understand why many people view Adventism as a cult. Some of the people – but not all – are very cult-like in their behavior. And I once knew a man who nearly starved his family because E.G.W. said that it’s best to eat only twice a day…

    I pray that the blinders would be removed from their eyes…

    • “I recommend to you, dear reader, the Word of God as the rule of your faith and practice. By that Word we are to be judged.” –Ellen G. White, Early Writings, 78.

      • Yes, Ms. White often made statements like that…but went on to introduce destructive heresies and legalism…like satan himself she mixed truth with error…and it has deceived many poor souls…

        I will say it again. I truly believe there are many misguided but sincere believers within SDA, as well as others who put their faith exclusively in EGW, SDA, vegetarianism, and the law…who are lost…

    • Dear J.E.N., it is you the deceived one in this case. Ellen White is appreciated even by many non-Adventist people, no matter wether she is inspired or not. To say that she was demon-possessed, as you wrote, it means ignorance and madness.

    • I don’t see that the SDA’s have problems building new beautiful Churches, hospitals, schools, offices, universities. Just look around and you will see large, beautiful buildings they are building everywhere. The Florida SDA hospital group has over 40 hospitals and almost all are adding big beautiful buildings costing millions of dollars. Union College from which I graduated from is now building a new science building costing close to 20 million. Almost all the buildings that were there have been replace by bigger and better buildings. The same can be said for all the other universities and schools.
      If Christ comes tomorrow or many years from now, What good is our money? This statement is just silly

      • I am an Adventist living in Australia, so I can only speak as an Adventist Australian. I spent 13 years of my life in an adventist school. My mother works in an adventist school. My father works for an adventist publishing company. I have friends working in the sole adventist hospital in Australia. You cannot tell me that having these adventist institutions and buildings serve no other purpose than to look good. I have seen lives being changed in these buildings. I have seen hearts being turned to God in these institutions. I have seen God glorified in these buildings. And isn’t that what we’re here for? To glorify God? And of course I have seen these things happen outside these buildings. But they serve a purpose. Each one serves a purpose.

        Can’t we look past the religion, the technicalities, the humanity and turn to God? Why are there so many arguments already on this very page? We serve the same God, and that is what matters. Every religion has truth. But there is only one Truth. God isn’t an Adventist, but he damn well loves Adventists. God isn’t a Catholic, but he damn well loves Catholics. God isn’t an atheist, but he damn well loves atheists. When will we do the same?

        • Jesus does love the Adventist, the Catholic, and the Atheist. But, I seriously doubt He loves a false gospel — certainly no more than He likes unbelief. It’s not people being attacked here — but rather a false belief system. And it needs to be exposed. Faith in the Investigative Judgment doctrine is belief in a false gospel. All the “wonderful works” you say SDA’s do cannot make up for that fatal flaw. The Apostle Paul said whoever teaches a works gospel, “Let him be accursed!” Nobody can remain an SDA once the true Gospel is understood. As much as it may make you squirm to hear these things — it’s actually us caring for the SDA. We who have come out of it simply want to help others come out of it.

          • Robin,
            What you believe in is your right. It’s your belief. No one can take that away from you. Neither can anyone take what I believe away from me. Each of us is following God to the best of our knowledge and ability. We’re coming from the same place.

            No religion is perfect, EVERY religion falls short of the Glory of God. Religion is something we created to try and understand God, to try and find a closer relationship with him. However, to say the SDA is a false belief is a malicious falsehood.

            I do not have faith in the investigative doctrine. My faith is in God. Ask any SDA I know what or who their faith is in, and they will not say a doctrine. When we go to church on Sabbath morning we are not holding the investigative doctrine, we are holding the Bible.

            Robin there are so many people out there who do not know God’s love. So many people, Robin. We can’t sit her squabbling amongst each other to find who is ‘right-er’ amongst a bunch of sinners who can never be better than ‘not good enough’. That is why we have Christ.

            I don’t want to convert anyone into Adventism. That’s not at all what I’m called for. I’m here to show people God’s love and grace. I’m here to make fishers of men. Not to make adventists of men. Or catholics of men. Or any other religion of men.

            You don’t have to agree with me, just accept that these are my beliefs. I very well may be wrong, but that is not for you to decide. That right’s reserved for the big guy.

          • Mariah,
            “No religion is perfect” — Is that what you’d say to the Apostle Paul if you belonged to the Church at Galatia in the 1st Century?! We’re not debating secondary issues here — but the very Gospel itself. The Gospel is that faith in Christ crucified is sufficient to save apart from any of our works. This is not the SDA “gospel” at all. They founded the Church on the false Investigative Judgment doctrine. And they make the very alleged “final test” an issue of law!

            So, you are deceived if you don’t think you are carrying around the Investigative Judgment doctrine. As long as you support the SDA Church everything you think you know about salvation is tainted by that doctrine. It’s embedded in every teaching they produce. They teach an “earned grace” that is really no grace at all — even though Paul says it has to be either 100% one or 100% the other. If by grace — then not of works. If by works — then not of grace Rom 11:6. The Adventists think they are “safer” if they have one foot in both. But, the two concepts cannot coexist. The one always undoes the other. Saying both grace and works contribute to salvation is like saying you can have light & darkness coexist in the same room!

            So, this is the problem I have with what you are suggesting. You want me to just accept the SDA as equally Christian. But, I cannot accept another as Christian while that person still holds to a false gospel of works. The Apostle Paul’s attitude was the same. And he was far more harsh about it. So, If my attitude of exposing the SDA’s false gospel of works is wrong — then you’d have to equally scorn the Apostle Paul for saying, “Let him be accursed!”

          • Robin,
            I fully agree with you on this point. There is NOTHING I can do to earn grace. Nothing. There are no amount of good deeds I can do to even scratch the surface on this thing called grace. I have NOT been taught otherwise at any point in my SDA education or SDA church.

            Being a Christian is not at all about being right. It’s about loving and accepting others. Jesus did not spend his days here on earth running about condemning and judging the religious leaders and telling them how wrong they were. He spent his days seeking and saving the lost. The sinners. The you and me. He treated them like brothers. He led by example. He loved with his actions. That is how I want to live. When I love others through my actions, I am doing so because that is the love Christ has shown to me, NOT because I am ‘earning’ my grace. Let us not love with words or speech, but with actions and in truth.

            Robin, I don’t want to sit here arguing with you. I can see that you don’t want to listen to me, and frankly I’m getting tired of listening to you. We are one in Christ, and yet we’re sitting here squabbling like children in a schoolyard.

            I accept you and your beliefs. Please show me the same courtesy.

            Happy Sabbath

          • Mariah,

            To this day, the SDA Church has yet to renounce the Investigative Judgment doctrine. And they have no intention of doing so. What you are saying out of your mouth is typical Adventist spin. You say “grace” and continue to uphold the Investigative Judgment doctrine — as if the two are compatible. They are not. They are polar opposites. You claim you don’t put faith in the Investigative Judgment doctrine. Yet, here are the reasons I don’t believe you:

            1) The SDA “gospel” of works stands or falls on that 1844 date.
            2) All SDA prophecy in their Prophecy Seminars relies on that 1844 date.

            Therefore, I have to conclude that you are simply programmed to think you believe in the same grace as Evangelicals. And you have simply been programmed to talk like you have the same grace. But, these 1844 doctrines are what is really in your heart — because all SDA doctrines rely on that date.

            This is the problem with all Adventists. They have been programmed to speak “evangelical-eze” so well that they have deceived themselves into thinking they have the same gospel. And most other Christians who hear SDAs speak accept them by what comes out of their mouths — instead of looking at the doctrines they harbor that clearly say the opposite.

            And this is the great tragedy. The SDA rarely hears and comprehends the true Gospel because of this. An evangelical Christian will hear the SDA speak the right evangelical buzz words and conclude him okay. But, the end result is only deception. The SDA has only deceived the other Christian into thinking he was okay. And worse, he walks away himself deceived that he has the same grace. He walks away keeping the two compartmentalized — grace & Investigative judgment — which allows him to never see the conflict.

            It is impossible to be an Adventist and believe in the true Gospel of grace.

          • Well, that all sounds nice. But, how can you know you’re saved before your works are judged in the alleged investigative Judgment!?

          • Robin, if you want to expose religious lies, please read first intelligently your Bible, remove any spirits-babbling and preconceived opinions, study the true Gospel and you will see clearly that many popular Christian beliefs are simply lies, including the most popular forms of the Gospel.

          • The true Gospel is tbe one that preaches “Christ crucified” as sufficient to save. It is the only message that separates true Christianity from all other religions of tbe world. The world of fase gospels add a certain formula of works above thst as necessary to be saved. It can present itself in multiple forms in order to appeal to every intellect — yet they are equally false. Which gospel do you have — the real one or one of the numerous false ones?

  17. Simply go to the library and pick up a copy of Fox’s “Book of Martyrs”. Read what the “true church” did to those who did not subscribe to their form of religion in the middle ages, particularly the Spanish Inquisition. If that is an example of a true church, I want no part of it.

    • Better yet, google all the Popes of the True Church who were martyr’s FIRST over the years !!! Come on dude don’t skip around – lets get history in order.
      You can follow Martin Luther and his tradition if you want but I’ll stick with Jesus True Catholic Church.
      While your at it google what kind of men Martin Luther / John Calvin and the others were that started your religion !

      • Popes martyrs? Yes, there were a few popes martyrs (probably, and a lot of popes who commanded the killing of “heretics” to enhance the number of the true martyrs. Without popes and middle ages, the world would have been better. THere were many good Christians among the Catholic and still are, there were even good popes, but Papacy has a sad fame. SO please do not repeat this painful topic.

    • AMEN TO THAT! Sadly not too many Catholics even KNOW their church’s dark history… But the atrocities committed are all FACT. (Matthew 7:15-20)- Jesus states: 15 “Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits YOU will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17 Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; 18 a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19 Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Really, then, by their fruits YOU will recognize those [men].

  18. Thank you Mr. Burke for your interesting article. I’m a seventh-day adventist. It is a family & community for me, that tries to follow with fidelity God’s Word, not really a structure.
    The problem is maybe the structure, that represents sometimes a barrier between man and God.
    Ellen White has written wonderful books, but as a human being, she wasn’t 24hours a day inspired by the Holy Spirit. Sometimes she had also a rude approach… public relations is a great gift and talent.
    As many catholics, she had great problems with the Vatican Institution…again, a huge and hindering human structure.
    If we focus on Ellen White, on human beings, on human structures & organizations, then we are going to fail for sure. God the Father, Christ the Son and the Holy Spirit have to be our only Light. E. White had divine inspirations for sure, but we have to focus on the Holy Spirit, who inspired her and who wants to inspire all of us, adventists or not.
    I’m an adventist. I love this wonderful and caring family, but i respect everybody and i think there is wonderful people everywhere.
    The important thing is that we all are submitted to God’s Word and to His precious mission: love, humility, forgiveness.
    Thanks for the opportunity to share my point of view. Again, congratulations for the article. Andy

  19. Andrew… You contradict yourself almost everything you write… If one can’t know your church teachings from the outside and only know it from the inside…. How can you possibly speak against the Catholic Church from the outside and not know what we actually teach / believe / worship / honor etc on the inside ?
    Your comments make no sense at all and I’m not being hateful just truthful.

    • Just quoting your own theological writings. Seventh-day Adventists appreciate the fact that the Catholic Church goes the length of explaining why they don’t worship on Saturday. We just don’t believe in the authority that the Catholic Church claims to have to change the solemnity of that day. We also appreciate the Catholic Church’s statement that if Protestants were to keep the law of God, they should worship on Saturdays, as the Seventh-day Adventists do, because by keeping Sunday, they are following something that the Catholic Church has instituted. We are grateful for your clarity on that~!

  20. I do find it amusing that so many people have their own thoughts / beliefs / interpretations etc etc and ALL anyone has to do to get ALL truth is flollow what Jesus said to do… Jesus said those that head the Apostles hear me – those that reject the Apostles reject me… Now this was said before any Bible was written for they the Apostles are who mostly wrote it…. So to hear Christ through the Apostles ALL anyone has to do for TRUTH is look up what the Apostles did / taught / believed including handing down AUTHORITY to who ? The Apostolic Fathers / Early Church Fathers… We have more evidence than EVER before to the truth with history writings and Internet etc but yet billions argue / reject against the teachings of the Apostles and their followers up to today and that means you REJECT JESUS CHRIST… WHY ? PRIDE !!!! .its like EACH individual gets to have their own faith / religion / interpretations of Scripture and on and on and on and this is NOT what Christ taught to his Apostles and what they taught to the Apostolic Fathers / Early Church Fathers etc… Geeeezzzzzz people READ the HISTORY it’s all their and so easy a 10 year old can read it and know the TRUTH !!!

    • JT, if having the faith of a child is a requirement for christianity, you must be at the head of the class. But, I would also point out that St Paul admonished us to give up childish things as we grow into a deeper faith. That faith should be marked by intelligent use of the head as well as the heart.

      Mature faith rests on more than a superficial and literal reading of ancient texts that have been translated and copied (and mistranslated and miscopied) innumerable times over several millennia. It’s more than a leap of faith to claim that the bible, as we have it, is the “inerrant” word of God: It’s wishful thinking on the grandest scale imaginable.

      • Mark, you can twist history all you want about Gospel of John and the Bible as you say. You can say Catholics don’t read it which may just be the biggest joke non-Catholics ever started. I don’t like to talk much about myself but I would put the time the Spirit of Truth John 16:13 has lead me to read Scriptures & History itself up against many many many people the last 10 years.
        That’s beside the point. You want people to believe all the FACTS we have that the Bible is the word of God inspired by the Holy Spirit given to men thousands of years ago. Funny thing is the Old Testatment an example / spoken by the prophets of what IS to come and sure enough they have come TRUE in the New Testetament. He can say been rewritten all you want but there is Scientific FACT of the writings and this can’t be denied but only those full of self pride.
        That’s like saying in a 100 years from now a 20 year old finds what you wrote on this thread and says he didn’t write that and even if he did its been rewritten over and over and twisted.
        How stupid does that sound ?
        One thing though in a 100 years YOU won’t be around to argue your interpretations…. You will be dead and depending on your belief or mine and the actual truth in the afterlife the truth will be with you and nothing you can do can change it for ETERNITY !!
        This is something ever single person / soul should at least ponder all the days of their life but the truth is today could be the day you find out !!!!! That’s a bigger gamble than the stock market / lottery / gambling in general… For its the last chance on earth to get it right and the ONLY to get ALL TRUTH is from the Spirit of Truth… Just take a moment and read John 16:5-15 !
        God Bless you with wisdom.

  21. The Catholic Church does not have to it is right and the Church Jesus founded – the teachings and time itself proves that all true…. But ALL other faiths have to try and prove the Catholic Church wrong for it IS the Church Jesus founded and from the beginning so they HAVE to ATTACK / PERSECUTE it just like Martin Luther did and ever since then.
    If Martin Luther and Billions since didn’t agree with the CC – why NOT just leave it and start your own faith ? Leave it don’t say a word but something inside them KNOWS it had to go after the ONE and ONLY to try and bring it down so they can steal the priesthood etc just like Korah Numbers 16&17 !!! God called that REBELLION against him so what do you think he calls it STILL ? Again like I posted yesterday your not fighting against the CC – your fighting against GOD / JESUS / HOLY SPIRT themsevles and all this IS Biblical !!!! Wake Up People & be Honest to yourself.
    ALL non-Catholics used to be Catholic weather you realize it or not… Just Google your reformation starters and see if they weren’t Priest / Monks etc before they walked away from Christ and his teachings to the Apostles who are the beginning of the Catholic Church….. They all walked outta pride – dishonest gain – sex – no authority etc…if you reject Christ you become Anti-Christ all biblical.

  22. Some of the posters sound really defensive. I thought the article was fairly written. My extended family is mostly SDA and ex-SDA. I attended SDA schools and spent many hours in SDA religious education, so I think I know my facts. Again, the author did a nice job, IMHO.

  23. Well, I don’t feel so bad after reading these posts, arguments. I was raised a Catholic, went to Catholic schools from K-12, and come from a very devout Catholic family of great, caring people. In my early 20’s i began to doubt some of the Catholic doctrine and my search for truth began. That was ALL I cared about, the truth (which there can be only one). I studied doctrine from faiths like Southern Baptist, Presbyterian, and more. I was invited to a Prophecy seminar from a friend who was SDA. I went and it changed my life. Because they stressed the Bible as the “Authoritative Word of God” and that we’re saved by grace through faith that Jesus died for our sins and that works DO NOT get us to Heaven. I began studying the Bible in a different way. I used a concordance and looked up every verse I could find on whatever subject I was studying. Then I would read the whole chapter, sometimes more instead of just a couple of verses so that everything was in context as to what was really being stated and that Holy Book started to blow me away! There were no more inconsistencies. I became obsessed with God’s Word. I also met some of the most Christ-Like and caring people in that church I had ever known. The more I got involved in the church, however, the more I began to see the politics of the church. There was a lot of debating between older and younger members and it eventually began to turn me off. I stopped going almost 10 years ago, but not because of that. I had a personal tragedy that and stopped feeling spiritual for a while. Anyway, my point is, hearing all of these arguments, slams against each other, all of these deep doctrinal debates become a real turn off to someone who simply wants to know God’s will and do it. Not to go to Heaven, but because we truly love our creator (“If ye love me, keep my commandments”). I may be wrong but I have stopped going to church and do my own Bible study and worship on my own. The true gift i received from that SDA experience was the sabbath day rest. Spending a whole day cut off from the worries of the world and focusing on Godly things, God’s word, nature, love and family. I began to notice that I was so much more prepared to handle problems aka attack from the evil ones after reconnecting with God and spending that day with Him than when I did not. The point is though, after reading all of these posts, I really feel no inclination whatsoever to rejoin a church and have to try to get all of these doctrines/debates straight. It’s just too much sometimes.

    • Rick,
      I wish your post was on Amazon.com because their are some there who don’t think SDA are Christians. I try to tell them that they are, but to no avail.
      exp

    • Seventh-Day Adventists will say with their mouths that they believe Christians are saved by grace. But, they do so while holding the Investigative Judgment doctrine behind their backs. If you never got into that doctrine while you were with them — that’s great. And that would explain why you think SDA’s believe salvation is by grace apart from works. There are many who are new in the SDA Church are likewise ignorant of that doctrine just like you apparently were. But, those who are generational SDA’s know about the Investigative Judgment doctrine — and do hold to it. It’s a doctrine that says the polar opposite of grace. It has Christ in heaven judging — Believers — according to their works for salvation.

      To this day, the SDA Church has refused to renounce the Investigative Judgment doctrine. They have even fired pastors who have dared to reject it. It’s a doctrine that the General Conference knows is contrary to the Gospel. But, they also know they can never renounce it. If they renounced that doctrine — they’d also have to declare Ellen White a false prophetess.

      I’m glad that your experience with the SDA Church did not introduce you to these heresies. But, I wish you could also understand why it is important to expose them. If you want to observe a Sabbath — you are free in Christ to do so. But, the SDA Church judges other Christians who do not observe a Sabbath — which is in direct violation of Colossians 2:16. Paul says they are not supposed to judge others on that matter.

    • @Rick- Have you ever spoken to one of Jehovah’s Witnesses? Just wondering… They know their Bible, that’s for sure. I’ve learned MANY truths from the scriptures and there is no “church politics”. Everything is done using the pattern set in the Bible of the first century Christians. There are no added (man-made) doctrines, only what’s found in the scriptures. You should at least look into it. I did and I am forever grateful for the light to my roadway.

      • Lette, the Jehovahs’s Witnesses also reject the Body & Blood of Jesus Christ at their annual Memorial Suppers. You cannot find anyone doing that in the first century. Paul was outraged to find anyone left out…

        1Co 11:18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you [i.e. Great Crowd & 144k] and I partly believe it.
        1Co 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you [by saying only a certain class go to heaven instead of “many mansions” for all] that they which are approved may be made manifest among you [as I am exposing such now].
        1Co 11:20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord’s supper [because a divided service is a divided body of Christ].
        1Co 11:21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper [144k claim exclusive rights]: and one is hungry [Great Crowd Class left out] and another is drunken [Like a JW who thinks he’s the best out of the 144k].

        Yes, the issue that caused the division of Christ’s Body & Blood was different in this case — gluttony & drunkenness. But, the end result was the same — that some were excluded from the Lord’s Supper. The overall message is that it outraged Paul’s to find anyone left out. This incident was due to negligence & bigotry. But, imagine how much more outraged Paul would be to see millions guilty of this same error — excusing themselves doctrinally!

        1Co 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord [all who claim to be part of the alleged elite 144k]
        1Co 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup [allow anyone to partake if they’re right with Christ]
        1Co 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body [To claim a divided Body of two classes is to not discern the Lord’s Body].

        The JW who rejects the elements of communion is ritually rejecting a covenant relationship with Christ. It is a ceremony that afford them the opportunity to formally reject Christ. And the JW who does partake “eats & drinks damnation to himself” by not discerning that the Lord’s Body is undivided.

        I don’t think Jehovah God is smiling down upon either alleged class.

  24. All of you are tiresome. Oh gosh. I don’t know what is worse, you guys debating over nothing or claiming who is right or wrong. The Bible is and always has been the standard of living. Grace is like a pardon from the President, because i got it, i should live up to the grace I receive. Now to all of you. Go and do what God asked you to do and stop all this useless bickering.

  25. This Adventist church is not the one founded 150 years ago. This Adventist church has abandoned the pillars of their faith. Completely embracing man made doctrines. Removing God and His son Jesus Christ from within their mist.
    They’re asleep and wanting but find themselves rich and in need of nothing.

  26. Daniel Burke…why not ask the question why the 7th Day Adventist church abandoned their faith and replaced it with their version of Trinitarian views. Why not ask them why they misquote Ellen G. White, Uriah Smith and other pioneers in order to fool their members. Ask them why it is that not until 1980 did this change become signed into their fundamental beliefs when each and everyone of the founders of the Adventist church were non Trinitarian. As them how is it they claim the 3 Angels message as true when they themselves wonder after a false god and deny the Father and the son Jesus Christ while making their Spirit a third entity not supported by scripture. Why do they worship the trinity and not the trinity’s Sunday. For surely they do not worship the God of the Sabbath. They’re suppose to be the people of the Bible the remnant yet they hide behind random Bible verses that do not uphold nothing more than their imposed theology. This would make a more interesting piece than a mere mention of 150 years and no second coming of Christ. They should give thanks day and night that Jesus Christ hasn’t returned.

    • Mr Lamp, why do you think Ellen White never expressed one explicit word disparaging the doctrine of the Trinity, in spite of the fact that her husband was a semi-arian? While she never used the Western term Trinity, she clearly affirmed a trinitarian view, as everyone can see in her writings. Our primary evidence is biblical (e.g. Mt 28:19; In 1:1; 14:16; AA 5:3-4; Rom 9:5; 2Cor 13:14; Tit 2:13; 1In 5:20; Is 63:9-10), but, since you insist that Ellen White had an antitrinitarian teaching, let all interested people read the following statements of Ellen White (they can be checked at http://text.egwwritings.org :

      “He [Christ] was equal with God, infinite and omnipotent…. He is the eternal, self-existent Son.” (Manuscript 101/1897)
      “…the power of God in the third person of the Godhead, the Holy Spirit. (Special Testimonies, Series A, No. 10, p. 37, 1897)
      “[quoting Jn 11:25]. In Christ is life, original, unborrowed, underived.” (The Desire of Ages, 1898:530).
      “The existence of Christ before His incarnation is not measured by figures.”—(The Signs of the Times, May 3, 1899).
      “We need to realize that the Holy Spirit, …is as much a person as God is a person…” (Manuscript 66/1899. from a talk to the students at the Avondale School).
      “Christ is the pre-existent, self-existent Son of God…. He assures us that there never was a time when He was not in close fellowship with the eternal God. He …had been with God as one brought up with Him.” (The Signs of the Times, August 29, 1900).
      “The eternal heavenly dignitaries—God, and Christ, and the Holy Spirit…” (Manuscript 145/1901).
      “We are to co-operate with the three highest powers in heaven,—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.” (Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, 1905:51).
      “The Father cannot be described by the things of earth. The Father is all the fullness of the Godhead bodily, and is invisible to mortal sight. The Son is all the fullness of the Godhead manifested. The word of God declares Him to be ‘the express image of His person.‘ [John 3:16 quotation]. Here is shown the personality of the Father.(Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, pp. 62, 63, 1905).
      “The Comforter that Christ promised to send after He ascended to heaven, is the Spirit in all the fullness of the Godhead, making manifest the power of divine grace to all who receive and believe in Christ as a personal Saviour. There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit—those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized…” (Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, pp. 62, 63, 1905).
      “The Word existed as a divine being, even as the eternal Son of God, in union and oneness with His Father. From everlasting He was the Mediator of the covenant…[ John 1:1-3 quotation]” (The Review and Herald, April 5, 1906).
      “The Holy Spirit is a person, for He beareth witness with our spirits that we are the children of God… The Holy Spirit has a personality…. He must also be a divine person, else He could not search out the secrets which lie hidden in the mind of God. [1 Cor 2:11 quotation] (Manuscript 20, 1906).

      • o (e.g. Mt 28:19; In 1:1(??); 14:16; AA (??) 5:3-4; Rom 9:5; 2Cor 13:14; Tit 2:13; 1In 5:20; Is 63:9-10),
        o ***Not one of these selected scriptures upholds a trinity doctrine of 3 co-eternal persons=one God.
        o
        o As to what Ellen G. White believed:
        o
        o The reasons why the churches are weak and sickly and ready to die is that the enemy has brought influences of a discouraging nature to bear upon trembling souls. He has sought to shut Jesus from their view as the Comforter, as one who reproves, who warns, who admonishes them, saying, “This is the way, walk ye in it.” Review and Herald, August 26, 1890
        o
        o When Jesus came to our world, He proclaimed Himself, “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me” [John 14:6]. “Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels o god ascending and descending upon the son of man” [ John 1:51]. 14MR 23.1 Although our Lord ascended from earth to heaven, the Holy Spirit was appointed as His representative among men. “If ye love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and H shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you forever, even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth Him: but ye know Him; for He dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless” [John 14:15-18]. 14MR 23.2 Cumbered with humanity, Christ could not be in every place personally; therefore it was altogether for their advantage that He should leave them, go to His father, and send the Holy Spirit to be His successor on earth. The Holy Spirit is Himself divested of the personality of humanity and independent thereof. He would represent Himself as present in all places by His Holy Spirit, as the Omnipresent. “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I hae said unto you” [John 14:26]. 14MR 23.3 (E.G.White, MR Vol 14 [NOS. 1081-1135] pg 23 Feb 1895
        o
        o “The Father and the Son alone are to be exalted.” Youth’s Instructor, July 7, 1898 par. 2
        o
        o What saith our Savior? ‘I will not leave you comfortless; I will come to you.’ He that hath my commandments and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father; and I will love him and will manifest myself to him’ When trials overshadow the soul, remember the words of Christ, remember He is an unseen presence in the person of the Holy Spirit, and He will be the peace and comfort given you, manifesting to you that He is with you, the Sun of Righteousness, chasing away your darkness. If a man love me, Christ said, he will keep my word: and my Father will love him and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.” Letter 124, 1897 (Daughters of God p. 185) John 14:16, 18, 23 Review and Herald Sept 23, 1902
        o
        o “The Scriptures clearly indicate the relation between God and Christ, and they bring to view as clearly the personality and individuality of each. [Hebrew 1:1-5 quoted}God is the Father of Christ; Christ is the Son of God. To Christ has been given an exalted position. He has been made equal with the Father. All the counsels of God are opened to His son.” EGW, 8T 268.3, 1904
        o
        o Christ declared that after his ascension, he would send to his church, as his crowning gift, the Comforter, who was to take his place. This Comforter is the Holy Spirit,-the soul of his life, the efficacy of his church, the light and life of the world. With his Spirit Christ sends a reconciling influence and a power that takes away sin.. It is by the Spirit that the heart is made pure. Through the Spirit the believer becomes partaker of divine nature. Christ has given his Spirit as a divine power to overcome all hereditary and cultivated tendencies to evil, and to impress his own character upon the church (ibid) (E.G.White The promise of the Spirit, Review and Herald, May 19, 1904)
        o
        o “Christ is one with the Father, but Christ and God are two distinct personages. Read the prayer of Christ in the seventeenth chapter of John, and you will find this point clearly brought out. (Ellen G. White to the delegates at the General Conference of the Seventh-day Adventist, Takoma Park Washington D.C., May 19, 1905 in Review and Herald, June 1, 1905)
        o
        o “Let them be thankful to God for His manifold mercies and be kind to one another. They have one God and one Savior and one Spirit-the Spirit of Christ- is to bring unity into their ranks. “ EGW, 9T 189 1906
        o
        o “Christ walks unseen through our streets. With messages of mercy He comes to our homes. With all who are seeking to minister in His name, He is in the midst of us, to heal and to bless, if we will receive Him.” Ellen G White, The Ministry of Healing, p. 107
        o
        The Desire of Ages E. G. White 1898
        “Wherefore He is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by Him, seeing He ever liveth to make intercession for them.” HEB 7:25. Though the ministration was to be removed from the earthly to the heavenly temple; though the sanctuary and our great high priest would be invisible to human sight, yet the disciples were to suffer no loss thereby. They would realize no break in their communion, and no diminution of power because of the Saviour’s absence. While Jesus ministers in the sanctuary above, He is still by His Spirit the minister of the church on earth. He is withdrawn from the eye of sense, but His parting promise is fulfilled, “Lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.” MATT 28:20. While He delegates His power to inferior ministers, His energizing presence is still with His church. (Ibid) Pp165-166 original.(1998, P 93)
        2. Before this the Spirit had been in the world; from the very beginning of the work of redemption He had been moving upon men’s hearts. But while Christ was o earth, the disciples had desired no other helper. Not until they were deprived of his presence would they feel their need of the Spirit, and then He would come. (Ibid) The Holy Spirit is Christ’s representative, but divested of the personality of humanity, and independent thereof. Cumbered with humanity, Christ could not be in every place personally. Therefore it was for their interest that He should go to the Father, and send the Spirit to be His successor on earth. No one could then have any advantage because of his location or his personal contact with Christ. By the Spirit the Savior would be accessible to all. In this sense He would be nearer to them than if He had not ascended on high. (Ibid) pp 668-669 orig. 1998 p412
        3. The Lord knows all about His faithful servants who for His sake are lying in prison or who are banished to lonely islands. He comforts them with His own presence. When for truth’s sake the believer stands at the bar of unrighteous tribunals, Christ stand by his side. All the reproaches that fall upon him, fall upon Christ. (Ibid) pp 669-671 orig. 1998 p413
        4.

        This is your post Mr. Laiu; …“We need to realize that the Holy Spirit, …is as much a person as God is a person…” (Manuscript 66/1899. from a talk to the students at the Avondale School).
        This is what Ellen G. White actually stated: The Lord says this because He knows it is for our good. He would build a wall around us, to keep us from transgression, so that His blessing and love may be bestowed on us in rich measure. This is the reason we have established a school here. The Lord instructed us that this was the place in which we should locate., and we have had every reason to think that we are in the right place. We have been brouth together as a school, and we need to realize that the Holy Spirit, who is as much a person as God is a person, is walking through these grounds , unseen by human eyes; that the Lord God is our Keeper and Helper. He hears every word we utter and knows every thought of the mind.” [E.G W. Sermons and Talks Vol 2, pp 136, 137 Also in MR Vol 7, p 299] As you can see Mr. Laiu in its context this selected E.G.W. quote does NOT uphold the trinity teaching.

  27. Ellen G. White warned:
    ” Those who seek to remove the old landmarks are not holding fast; they are not remembering how they have received and heard. Those who try to bring in theories that would remove the pillars of our faith concerning the sanctuary or concerning the PERSONALITY OF GOD or of CHRIST, are working as blind men. They are seeking to bring in uncertainties and to set the people of God adrift without anchor. E.G. White MR 760 p 9.5, 1905 (emphasis mine),

    “When men come in who would move one pin or pillar from the foundation which God has established by His Holy Spirit, let the aged men who were pioneers in our work speak plainly, and let those who are dead speak also, by the reprinting of their articles in our periodicals.” E.G. W., MR Vol. 1, p 55

    That which was truth in the beginning is truth now. Although new and important truths appropriate for succeeding generations have been opened to the understanding, the present revealings DO NOT CONTRACDICT those of the past. Every new truth understood only makes more significant the old.” E. G. White, Review and Herald, March 2, 1886 (emphasis mine)

    “The statements of God’s Word are plain. Plant your feet firmly on the platform of eternal truth. Reject every phase of error, even though it be covered with a semblance of reality, which denies the personality of God and of Christ.” E. G. White, Review and Herald, Aug. 31, 1905

    The trinity doctrine denies the personality of God and Christ. It denies that God is the literal Father of Christ and that Christ is the literal son of God. It also denies that the Holy Spirit is the spirit of both God and Christ. The trinity doctrine is NOT Biblical.

    Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist–denying the Father and the Son. 1 John 2:22

  28. Mr Laui in regard to these verses you’ve posted in support of the trinity doctrine Mt 28:19; In 1:1(??); 14:16; AA (??) 5:3-4; Rom 9:5; 2Cor 13:14; Tit 2:13; 1In 5:20; Is 63:9-10

    Mt 28:18-20
    18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. 19Go you therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20Teaching them to observe all things whatever I have commanded you: and, see, I am with you always, even to the end of the world. Amen.
    It is written: Parallel scriptures to Matt 28:19
    Mark 16:15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.
    Luke 46-48
    And said to them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48And you are witnesses of these things.
    Acts 1:1-3
    1The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, 2Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments to the apostles whom he had chosen: 3To whom also he showed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
    Acts 2:38 (Peter speaking)
    “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
    Acts 8:12
    But when they believed Philip as he proclaimed the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
    Acts 19:4-6
    4Then said Paul, John truly baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying to the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spoke with tongues, and prophesied.

    So Mr. Laiu what exactly was the good news? What was the gospel of Christ that He commanded His disciples to preach/teach to all nations?

    It is written: the gospel of Christ:
    John 3:16-18
    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. …

    Mr. Laiu anyone who exalts the trinity doctrine does not believe the gospel of Christ because the trinity doctrine destroys the gospel of Christ. The trinity doctrine claims that Christ is but a metaphorical son and likewise God is but a metaphorical Father.
    Thus saith the Word of God
    John 6:29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
    1 John 3:23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us
    John 6:57 (Jesus speaking) Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.
    Jon 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
    John 14:16 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
    Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.
    Eph 4: 3- 6 3 Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. (Read also verses 7-16)
    Rom 8:15-16 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.” The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.
    Gal 4:6 And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”
    2 Cor 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
    1 Thess 4:8 Therefore, anyone who rejects this instruction does not reject a human being but God, the very God who gives you his Holy Spirit.
    Heb 3:6 “…Christ is faithful as the Son over God’s house. And we are his house, if indeed we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope in which we glory.”
    Rev 2:7 “Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.”

    Rev 3:21 “ To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne.”

    16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give youa this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”
    17 The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.
    18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.
    20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.”
    Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
    21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen.

    Mr. Laui ..The Word of God testifies there is but One God who is the literal Father of His literal begotten son our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. That the Holy Spirit is the spirit of both God and Jesus Christ. There is no other. God our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ alone are to be exalted.

  29. e Illuminati is really serious… they killed 2pac cause he wanted to tell people about the Illuminati blinding people not to see about e seventh day…( the 7 day theory ) .

    they started since Nimrod ‘ s time building a tour (pyramid) to go to heaven.. God changed languages they couldn’t hear each other then started again using symbolic language …

    also created world war 2

    the devil is at work .. they r controlling everything.. (America) ..technology is being used to deceive people ‘s attention from God.. using their symbolic language everywhere.. America is seeking for power to rule the world so that they will create one government and one religion..that’s why they’re stealing.. from other counties… their war is against the seventh day..they’re very smart and the most deadly part of it people know nothing… they’re trapped cause they told us money is power.. so everyone ‘s attention is on money… they give drugs,guns to children so that they will be doom… and murderers.. they’re killing Arabs innocent blood… they’re devils.. pop john Paul knows this he clams to be God… and Obama is just following oders.. the last true president of America was Kennedy.. they killed him so that they will accomplish the pyramid.. with their own puppets e.g (gorge w bush)

    they want to eliminate the seventh day.. and
    make the Sunday law… but still God’s massage will never be perish… cause he is God… he rested on the seventh day and blessed it..and it’s also written in the 10 commandments .. (Exodus 20: 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. ) :)

  30. Please stop saying that we pray for the apocalypse!
    We do not pray for the apocalypse!! We pray for the second coming of Jesus! True, the apocalypse will come with his 2nd coming, But it is a very sad event and one that we do not pray for. We pray for HIS RETURN to save his people and take them home with him to heaven!!!

  31. While I have no ill will against the Seventh-day Adventists; any church that preaches Scripture and that Jesus Christ is the Messiah who is coming again – on God’s time – is ok in my book.

    However, I do have a problem with their urgency for Christ to come now, or as quickly as possible.

    While the Lord tarries, more and more people are turning their lives over to Christ and becoming Christians to share in the inheritance of all of God’s children.

    To wish the Lord return so quickly would mean that there remains so many lost souls, who won’t have the chance to accept Christ. That is on the hands of Christians, who haven’t brought more people to Christ. Now THAT is what should be preached with the greatest sense of urgency.

    To wish for Christ to come quickly is really a selfish faith.

    Christ will come when the last person in God’s plan comes to know Him personally and accepts His Son. When that last person gets saved, God will send His Son to gather His children.

    In my faith, which certainly isn’t a “toothless” faith, we believe in Christ’s coming and pray for His return, as Scripture teaches us to do; however, we pray for that day to be a day of God’s choosing, in His time. We don’t pray for Him to “hurry it up.” We pray for His will.

    God bless you all and keep you through this life until the day of His return,
    GM,III

  32. If the only issue with Seventh-day Adventism was that they are pushing the return of Christ, worshiping on a different day, and eating vegetarian that I would say this article was comprehensive enough.

    What Christians don’t know is that Seventh-day Adventism believes that IT is the remnant church, that churches who worship on Sunday are a part of Babylon and will receive the mark of the beast for not keeping the sabbath, that it is a sin to say you are saved because the “Investigative Judgement” (one of their core doctrines that they created to explain away the 1844 disappointment) has not ended and so no one can know if they passed this judgement (in other words, the cross isn’t enough, it is not finished, and you better watch out cause the angels are keeping record of your every sin and if you don’t confess them all– forgotten ones included- you will not be able to be in heaven).

    Adventists teach that “Jacobs time of trouble” or the great tribulation will be when Christians (especially those who left Seventh-day Adventism) will hunt and kill them because they kept the sabbath. Their pathfinders programs teach kids what plants are edible in their local area in case they live long enough to endure the end time persecution of Adventists.

    This is not just a denomination of Christianity. It isn’t even apostate Christianity because that would imply they once had the gospel. This is a different gospel birthed out of a heretical movement. For more information go to www.formeradventist.com

  33. G.M. Thank you for your comments. This article was not written by a Seventh-day Adventist, is very slanted against Seventh-day Adventists, and is not accurately quoting even the persons cited. I know many of them personally. The Adventist Church believes, as 2 Peter 3 declares, that nobody knows the time of Christ’s return, but that He is longsuffering and patient toward us, not willing that any should perish, and that is why He has not returned yet. Some people get disillusioned sometimes, but the Adventist Church is focused on helping people get ready for the second coming of Christ, not just on having Christ come back soon.

  34. You are right. Christ will not come till every person has had the opportunity to choose to follow christ or not. So when we pray for christ to come , we are also praying that he will help us to give the world the message of his second coming and for them to make a choose for or against following him.

  35. To Georgogana
    I am not a SDA but just this morning I prayed for Jesus to come quickly. Why? I was studying Amos and began recognizing the sins of Israel, the Northern Kingdom were the sins of my own country the USA. The world is so full of sin that I just want him to come quickly.

    But the fact of the matter is, is that God has already picked the day when he will come and whenever that is, is when he will come.

    Still with John I pray, Come quickly, Lord Jesus.

  36. I think your opinion is based on a false assumption that being a selfish faith. Its not selfish at all. Instead it is a wanting to the end of sin. It is a wanting to overcome sin in Jesus Christ and be ready to go home. Its a wanting of fulfillment of the scriptures for it is written in Revelation 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

  37. Daniel Burke

    Daniel Burke

    Article author

    Andrew,

    I’m not sure why you would say the story is slanted against the church, or what basis, if any, you have for accusing me of misquoting sources. In fact, none of the sources in the story have told me that they were quoted inaccurately.

    As for whether the church is indeed focused on the Second Coming, I’d point you President T.C. Wilson’s sermon from this Saturday.

    “This is a very sad anniversary,” Wilson told delegates gathered for the 11 a.m. worship service. “We should have been home by now! The Lord has wanted to come long before this. Why celebrate any more anniversaries when we could be in heaven?”

    http://news.adventist.org/archive/articles/2013/04/14/no-more-anniversaries-wilson-says-in-spring-meeting-sermon?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ann-en+%28Adventist+News+Network+-+English%29

  38. Chris Schaeffler

    Thank you Daniel Burke for this clarification.
    President T.C. Wilson’s sermon was a sad contrubution. His theological position is not representative for the 30 million Adventist Christians. Adventists don’t have a Pope, but some church members glorify the “world” church president. Since his “election” a great portion of church members are suffering. I expected Wilson to resign, but this is an illusion…

  39. When you are quoting Wilson, and the others, you are taking snips of what you have heard, or received in response of your questions. But the overall picture you have painted in your article is by no means an accurate picture of the Adventist Church. You have taken your text and tried to paint a picture of the state of the Adventist Church today. But, unfortunately, you speak out of context. The Adventist Church is not sitting around mourning and hanging its’ head. You will need to do quite a bit more study of Seventh-day Adventist Theology and Purpose of Mission before you can understand even what Wilson is trying to say in his sermon. We all have a slant on life, you can’t escape it. But if you speak from the outside, you can’t possibly understand what is going on in the inside. You might even regurgitate word for word what people say, but if you don’t relate why they say it, or even understand where they are coming from, then you speak out of context. I can listen to his message and understand what he is saying, but we are not a sad church. We are taking a look at what we see as reality, and the President is attempting to give a wake-up call to the church to not forget where we have come from, nor where our vision is to go.

  40. Adventists have mostly, jumped to conclusions, judged “books by their covers” & (people), been defensive, all attitdues not of Christ. The message to Adventists Wake up and buy of Jesus eyesalve so that you can see your own sin and ask forgiveness, and ask for a new heart, that God will put there, in HIS IMAGE.

  1. […] As they turn 150, Adventists still pray for the apocalypse — Adventist leaders say the apocalyptic pull is still strong at church headquarters, especially during planning sessions. “I see that in our education system,” said Beardsley-Hardy. “Not wanting to over-invest in building because Jesus is coming.” Religion doesn’t have to make you stupid, but it sometimes does an awfully good job of exactly that. (Via Slacktivist Fred Clark.) […]

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