(RNS) With his open and easygoing manner, Pope Francis charmed the media as much as the faithful during his successful visit to Brazil, the first international pilgrimage of his pontificate.

Pope Francis addresses journalists on his flight from Rio de Janeiro to Rome July 29. The pope spent 80 minutes answering questions from 21 journalists on the plane. Photo by Paul Haring/Catholic News Service

Pope Francis addresses journalists on his flight from Rio de Janeiro to Rome July 29. The pope spent 80 minutes answering questions from 21 journalists on the plane. Photo by Paul Haring/Catholic News Service


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But it was the pope’s remarks about gay priests, made during a free-wheeling press conference on the return trip to Rome, that drew the most headlines, raising questions about whether the pontiff was signaling a change in the church’s approach to this volatile issue.

When asked by reporters about rumors of a “gay lobby” of clergy in the Vatican who were exposing the Holy See to blackmail schemes and scandal, Francis at first joked that while there’s a lot of talk about such a lobby, “I have yet to find on a Vatican identity card the word ‘gay.’ ”

Then, in a more serious vein, he added:

“I think that when we encounter a gay person, we must make the distinction between the fact of a person being gay and the fact of a lobby, because lobbies are not good. … If a person is gay and seeks the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge that person?”

Francis also cited church teaching to argue that gays should never be marginalized: “The problem is not that one has this tendency (to homosexuality); no, we must be brothers. This is the first matter.”

Blogs and social media immediately exploded with commentary that either hailed — or lamented — the pope’s words as a shift in Catholic teaching on the role of gays and lesbians in the church.

But did Francis really signal such a change?

As far as church teaching, the pope said nothing that would indicate that there would be any change in the tenet that homosexuality is, as the Catholic catechism states, “objectively disordered.” Church teaching holds that because same-sex relations cannot lead to children they are against the natural moral law, and homosexuality has been condemned in Scripture.

Yet no one really expected Francis to announce any change to that doctrine, even if he could, and certainly not during an off-the-cuff exchange with journalists.

What the pope did appear to do, however, was to push back against a 2005 policy instituted by Pope Benedict XVI, his immediate predecessor, which stated that men with “deep-seated homosexual tendencies” could not be ordained. In a 2010 interview, Benedict again underscored that view, saying “Homosexuality is incompatible with the priestly vocation.”

Francis took a different tack on Sunday (July 28) night.

“Pope Francis seems to feel that as long as a gay priest is not acting out sexually, he should not be judged,” said Richard Gaillardetz of Boston College, president of the Catholic Theological Society of America. “And he apparently sees no impediment to that priest serving the church well.”

It’s also notable that during his news conference, Francis defended one of his first major appointments, that of Monsignor Battista Ricca to help oversee the scandal-plagued Vatican Bank. Since his promotion, Ricca has been the target of an intense whispering campaign that accuses Ricca of having had at least one gay affair years ago.

Francis instead denounced such witch hunts and added that “if a person, or … priest or a nun, has committed a sin and then that person experienced conversion, the Lord forgives and when the Lord forgives, the Lord forgets.”

But the biggest message that Francis sent, and the most substantial change he made, was in tone.

Throughout his discourse there was none of the clinical, distancing talk of gays and lesbians as “objectively disordered.” Nor did Francis say, as Benedict did, that homosexuality “is one of the miseries of the church.”

As the Rev. James Martin noted, Francis even used the word “gay,” and in a positive sense, whereas popes and Vatican officials have traditionally spoken only of “homosexuals.”

“This is a sea change,” said Martin, a U.S. Jesuit and popular author.

“This may be a matter of ‘style’ in some sense, but in this case style matters,” Gaillardetz explained in a statement that echoed the poet Robert Frost. “One can appeal to our doctrinal tradition in order to justify moral rigidity and exclusionary attitudes or one can appeal to our doctrinal tradition as a call to be instruments of mercy and compassion. Francis has chosen the latter course and it has made all the difference!”

Observers have already detected an effort by Vatican officials to soft-pedal the pope’s comments, while some Catholics on the right were trying to explain them away — a campaign that Ross Douthat, a conservative and Catholic columnist for The New York Times, rejected as undermining the pope’s clear intention.

“Conservative Catholics suggesting there’s no news in the pope’s remarks are parsing the words, downplaying their context and spirit,” Douthat tweeted.

Francis’ openness with the media marks another difference from his predecessor, who answered only scripted questions by the Vatican’s chief spokesman, the Rev. Federico Lombardi.

During the 80-minute conversation, Francis touched on several other issues of Catholic doctrine:

  • Francis reaffirmed the church’s ban on ordaining women to the priesthood, saying the issue had been definitively resolved by Pope John Paul II. “That door is closed,” he said, though adding that Catholic theologians needed to reflect more on the role of women in the church.
  • On the other hand, the pope advocated “mercy” for divorced and remarried Catholics, who are currently banned from receiving Communion if they do not have a church annulment.
  • Answering a question about the scandal-ridden Vatican Bank, the pope referred to the investigation he launched on the bank’s activities and status, stressing that all options were on the table for its future, including its outright closure.

YS/AMB END GIBSON

45 Comments

    • Barbara Deesing

      There is a great difference between “sin” and grave sin. Point blank, acts of homosexuality may hold even graver consequences than fornication of two heterosexuals. Jesus told us that the 2 become one, and this is true of both the union of the body AND spirit. Mary Magdalene was an adultress or prostitute depending on how the bible verses state it. She was not possessed with the legions of demons which Jesus threw into the pigs, and yet it took Jesus, God Himself, seven times of casting the demons out of Mary Magdalene, as opposed to only once for the man who threw himself about on the ground, in todays terms plum crazy!. Were there seven offenses of adultery committed? This may be a mystery to be discovered. The scriptures of the old testament have Gods curses on such acts, not to mention that any sins of the body are detrimental to the temple of the Holy Spirit, but the act of homosexuality would also constitute a grave sin against God’s creation as well, and that’s what threw satan out of the Heavens by St. Michael the Archangel! If we deem him as the church’s defender, we may want to consider this very seriously.

  1. It’s time for Christians to start paying critical attention to Francis’s statements. He is clear and direct when it comes to helping the poor, but it’s now obvious that he’s hemming and hawing when it comes to addressing the homosexual juggernaut.

    Nothing wrong with a fresh dollop of mercy and grace, (in fact we all need it), but if the clarity is compromised, then the compassion is corrupted. Therefore all the sudden “parsing” and “interpreting” that’s surfaced in the wake of Francis’s comments, is a bad sign. Will the Pope ultimately take a stand or a surrender?

    • Sir, – On his flight back to Rome from Brazil, Pope Francis gave his views to journalists on gay people (World News July 30th).

      “If a person is gay and seeks God and has good will, who am I, for charity, to judge him?” he said.

      This sounds like a benign statement, even a non-judgmental statement, even a supportive statement, until one looks below the surface.

      What if he had said: “If a person is heterosexual and seeks God and has good will, who am I, for charity, to judge him?”

      This would sound preposterous. He would rightly be accused of having a deep- seated prejudice against heterosexuals.

      Pope Francis would like it both ways; to be seen as a friend of gays, yet doing nothing to support them.

      He has made it clear there will be no change in his organisation’s teaching on sexuality. This means his predecessor’s statement that the homosexual orientation “is a more or less strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil” stays on the books.

      Pope Francis may seem like a kindly smiling father figure, but he is in fact even more dangerous than his predecessor, who at least had the decency not to smile as he made his horrifically judgmental statements on gay people. – Yours, etc,

      DECLAN KELLY,

      • Pope Francis, is not judgmental. Gays, Lesbians, heterosexuals etc. He teaches us that no matter the person we should love them, not condemn them ( not judge them). Jesus did the same, loved them (everyone) no matter what. God has always and will keep loving no matter the person and where they are in life. That is exactly what Pope Francis is teaching.
        Since God is love. We should love them (everyone) as he loves us, not be judgmental.
        It is God’s duty to do that, judge.

        Yes, we as humans can decide who we want to hang out with, but that does not mean that we have the right to judge them or others. The Bible states that if anyone judges he will be judged. Judging leads to Pride. Pride leads to I am better than you attitude. That leads to hatred. We have not walked in each other’s shoes (path of life). So let us not judge, but chose to live to love.

        You do not know me or your neighbors full life story. People do not tell everyone there full life’s story even if you think you do. Stop and think about that. Do you tell everyone or even one person every detail of your life? I do not think so.

        There is always something they keep between God and themselves.
        You also do not know what God had planted in his heart to do for the glory of His (God’s) kingdom.
        Also, stop and think positively about that.
        God works wonders.
        He can (does) turn things around for the better.
        Pray, pray, and pray. Praying is powerful. Pray with your whole heart for God’s love to enter fully into this world. There is only one God and He is love. You will see and hear the difference after you do.
        Have a wonderful life full of Blessing.
        We only get Blessings from God.

      • Joe, i love how you and those with your agenda speak the same nonses over and over. As Christians we are told by our God what is good and acceptable and what is “not” good or is unacceptable. If you dont like the fact that your lifestyle is unacceptable to us them to bad for you! It doesnt mean we hate you! The Lord tells us to “love” the sinner not the sin. We will never accept our own sin in our lifes, why do you expect us to accept yours? We dont hate ourselves somit is ridiculous to say we hate you.

    • Absolutely agree..The pope needs to take a firm stand with the doctrine of
      the RCc in accordance with the Word of God..The Holy BIble..The bible
      is clear that homosexual behavior is an abomination to God and that it is
      evil Pope Benedict XVI guarded the gospel truths and did not sway to the ways
      of pleasing the world..He held firm and fast to Gospel truth..faithful to God first
      in all ways..

  2. Yes, pay attention

    I agree with Doc Athony. It seems like the Pope is being polite, but not coming out and saying clearly what he means. It’s all well and good to say that all should be treated with respect, but what form will that respect take? What are the real-life outcomes of such platitudes? If Francis is to lead, he needs to clearly communicate his vision and interpretation of the scripture. Right now, he’s kind of patting everybody on the head and saying “Get along now, children.”

    I feel like Doc Anthony’s use of the term “juggernaut” is more indicative of his/her own discomfort and fear than of any power among homosexual people. There are homosexual lobbyists, but no homosexual cabal. They are no more or less unified than lefties, who were despised as being of the devil for ages. As a percentage of the population, I’m sure that there are no more homosexuals than there are lefties, but no one is claiming the kindergarteners are being tainted or confused by the weird scissors in the Sunday school craft bin.

    • 10 years ago, or even five perhaps, I probably would have agreed with you about the use of the term “juggernaut”. But at this point there seems to be little doubt — at least not in America — that the term is valid, especially regarding law, politics, media, education, entertainment, and even some churches and denominations. Other than that, I agree with the rest of your response.

      • Pope Francis was making his statement in the context of gay Catholic priests. When he uses the word, them, here, he is referring to these individuals. Yes, it is important to understand every section of a person’s statement in the full context of what they are speaking about. He is referring to Catholic priests who have some level of same-sex sexual attractions, who are celibate and likely trying to be celibate chaste. In good faith means being honest about their same-sex sexual attractions, even being open about those, even having an identity of a gay Catholic priest, but who in good faith are seeking to follow Catholic church teaching on sexual behavior.
        I think Pope Francis would even go a bit further. I think he would say he respects openly gay Catholic priests who are seeking the Lord in relation to whether they would hear from the Lord as to whether he would be pleased with them being sexually active as openly gay Catholic priests. I think the Pope would welcome conversations about what they feel the Lord is impressing upon them. I think he would also say that he would not agree with them, if they determined that they thought intimate same-sex sexual behavior was appropriate for them. Thus, that would be why Dignity would exist outside of the approval of the Catholic church.

  3. Sister Geraldine M. Wagner

    “Not everyone can accept this teaching, but only those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let anyone accept this who can.” (Matthew 19:11-12)

  4. Since Gods created order cannot be changed the pope or anyone else cannot change what the bible says. Homosexual behavior always has been and will always be a sin.

  5. The Catholic Church has done nothing but rearrange the furniture. It continues its policy of bigotry toward gays and women, and promotes an outdated theology. It’s true that the church does do a few good things, but on balance, the world would be better off without it.

    • If its out dated why are you here peddling your trash? Why even bother? You dont believe in our God so again, Why do you care what i believe? Just like the majority of homosexuals you hate the fact we dont and will never accept your lifestyle as good! If you want to know what God thinks and feels, read the Bible and pray! Other than that, take your hate elsewhere!

  6. He-man woman-haters club

    Ironically, for centuries, the Church has been a safe harbor for gays. Coutless gay men have seen their orientation as a calling to be priests. The Church was the patron for many queer artists (Leonardo, Michelangelo, Caravaggio) and musicians. Gays have filled the Shoes of the Fisherman many times; most recently, Paul VI, and soon-to-be saint, John XXIII.

    • Michelangelo made the decision himself, not because of pressure from the Catholic church, to not pursue same-sex sexual behavior, even though he experienced sexual attractions toward some other men. Now, he disagreed with the Catholic church’s position on a broad range of topics. To some, he was considered to be more in the Reformers camp. It was because of his own understanding of the biblical texts that he made the decision to not pursue homosexual sexual behavior.

  7. In response to a person who said, “Frist time I hear a pope speak on gays in this non-judging way.” I said:

    So, was the Pope speaking on gays, or just on gay Catholic priests who were celibate? Was he speaking on gays who were sexually active homosexually in a non-judging way? Not exactly.

    He was speaking on gays who were gay because of their same-sex sexual attraction tendencies, who responded in a way consistent with Catholic teaching. He was speaking on gays who disagreed with his position, that he still respected them.

    He is making the point that only God does the judging, but he is, what you might say a lawyer for the court, presenting a position, either for the defense or for the prosecution, depending on the case at hand. Some people see lawyers as judging, when they never make the final decision, even though they may represent strong opinions or perspectives on the case.

    Here are 5 of my blog posts where I work through the media’s shifting spin on what Pope Francis said:

    http://ethnologystudy.blogspot.com/2013/07/media-back-peddling-on-spin-of-popes.html

    http://ethnologystudy.blogspot.com/2013/07/aps-matt-freedmans-distorted-spin-on.html

    http://ethnologystudy.blogspot.com/2013/07/national-catholic-reporter-article-on.html

    http://ethnologystudy.blogspot.com/2013/07/chicago-tribune-accurately-explains.html

    http://ethnologystudy.blogspot.com/2013/07/pope-francis-definition-of-gay-clergyman.html

  8. In regards to the Catholic church’s positional document, and the organization, Dignity (a non-approved gay-affirming Catholic rooted organization).

    Pope Francis agrees with this document. Dignity chapters are not consistent with Catholic church teaching and were correctly asked to hold their meetings in other spaces besides those of the Catholic church. I don’t think that Pope Francis sees that as having banished a perspective, but more of asking that such a perspective be presented outside of the Catholic church.

    The purpose of Pope Francis’ statements about not judging were in regards to Catholic priests who were openly gay. And he was expanding that statement to all Catholic priests who have some level of same-sex sexual attraction where they are committed to being celibate. That’s the context of his statement.

    In addition his statement was expanding to refer to people, men and women, who would identity as gay. He doesn’t feel that a gay identity is sinful. He doesn’t feel that same-sex sexual attractions are sinful. He would say that he feels that the same-sex sexual attractions are disordered (but again, we need to be very careful in understanding what that term means and what it doesn’t mean), from the Catholic teaching perspective on sexuality and the purpose of sex.

    This is why Timothy Dolan said what he did on CBS This Morning, today, which is Tuesday. See: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57596078/archbishop-dolan-we-can-treat-homosexuals-with-dignity/

  9. Does Pope Francis need to state specifically his position on sexually active gay-affirming individuals?

    Pope Francis would state, as Timothy Dolan restated today, that he would ask anyone who is Catholic to repent of intimate sexual behavior outside of a heterosexual marriage. He didn’t need to specifically address whether he thought that people who are gay need to repent of intimate same-sex sexual behavior. He was trying to be gracious and candid. He was speaking of respect for openly gay and sexually active gay individuals when he used the general cultural phrase, “a gay person.”. Respecting someone might actually be a greater reason to offer his perspective to them about what he would suggest that they consider as sin and what could be repented of, forgiven and forgotten by God. He was talking about confession of behavior and not of orientation. However, Pope Francis understands that not everyone who would consider themselves to be a gay person, would be sexually active in a same-sex context.

  10. Are David and Alessandro sure of this statement?:
    ““objectively disordered.” Church teaching holds that because same-sex relations cannot lead to children they are against the natural moral law, and homosexuality has been condemned in Scripture.”

    I think that the issue of procreation is a small part of the logic that leads to the statement about same-sex sexual attractions being viewed as objectively disordered. I do not think that the main issue of what the Catholic church understands biblical teaching and church tradition to present, is about having children. It is about same-sex sexual behavior not being pleasing to God, even if it feels natural.

    Homosexuality, when the term is referring to sexual attractions, as Timothy Dolan stated, is not condemned in Scripture. And of course there have always been heterosexual sexual relationships that did not, or could not, lead to having children. They are not viewed as disordered.

    See this Wiki site: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_Roman_Catholicism

    The term, objectively disordered, is rooted in an understanding of what is viewed as moral or not, rather than what is considered natural; as some who have same-sex sexual attractions believe. I think that Pope Francis would say that same-sex couples who are sexual do experience unitive purposes in their sexual activity. I think that the Pope would also say that even most heterosexual sex today is not intended to be procreative – even by those in the Catholic church. I think that the main issue is one of what the Catholic church believes to be a biblical concept of the complementarity of the opposite sexes. Yet, I think that the Pope also understands that there is much complementarity in same-sex sexual relationships.

    I think he would say that what feels natural, may still be against natural law. Still, I think he would also say that same-sex sexual relationships are of genuine affective (of emotion or feeling) complementarity. And I think he would say that what is not the natural sexual complementarity of same-sex sexual expression; that expression is still fulfilling in same-sex sexual relationships. Thus, I do think he would say it is primarily a moral issue.

  11. Religious conservatives, like Benedict and Dolan, often act like Mean Girls. They feel good by making others feel bad, and they feel included when they marginalize people they perceive as weaker than them. They have always used religion as a tool to maintain their power. Like all bullies, they are pathetic.

  12. The Pope didn’t say anything outside of Catholic doctrine. All remarks or comments seem to be from those who want to see what they want to see. The glass is half full. The glass is half empty. The Pope just said who am I to say how much is in the glass? Silly people.

  13. God don’t make mistakes, so would it make a man gay if he lays in bed or has sex in marriage with a transsexual-intersexual who was born with a penis and a vagina? ABSOLUTELY NOT- the truth shall set you free.

    • I agree, as long as a person has Jesus in His heart, he is set free. If a person has Jesus in his heart then he will strive to do the best that he can for the Glory of God.
      It is not our duty to judge; it is God’s duty. I can keep going on, but I am tired now. Here it is 11:03pm.
      May God fill you with Blessing now and forever!

    • You truth is garbage! You have NO faith and No mustard seed to speak of! It is obvious to ALL that you are NOT a believer of our God! You quote scripture and interpret it like you know something. Satan quoted scripture to!!! Does that make him (satan) holy? Does that make him good? I am NOT saying your satan either. I am stating a FACT, you are NOT a christian and you are NOT a righteous person like you claim to be in you mile long post. I am a “sinner” as we all are! Difference between us and you? We “will not” accept our sin as good or try and twist, tangle and mutter his word to be what it is NOT!

  14. TRANSSEXUALISM- THE TRUTH BETWEEN MY GOD AND I

    People come to America wanting to be Americans with this “I have a dream” attitude to create jobs and businesses, but how does that help real Americans back here at home if they only come to create, help, and hire their own people, and take away jobs from real Americans in need, and change America with their religions and teach to hate the LGBT community. And if women praise the Bible so much and believe in traditional values, then stay home the way the Bible teaches and work the house and take care of the family and stop taking the jobs of men, because there is hardly any jobs left ‘for many men.
    The only thing or part of me that is a superficial body part of a man is my long clitoris that developed into a penis in my mother’s womb. In other words, everyone experiences being a female during the beginning stages of conception. It’s clear that when a male to female girl is raised up as such, that girl’s whole bone structure develops and grows to be a woman etc. A lot of people don’t have the decency to educate themselves on what they hate, and can’t possibly understand something that doesn’t apply to them. Perhaps we transsexuals are hated and labeled according to the DSM book for selfish reasons and economical gains, and opportunity pleasures that come along with the sense of advantage. What people fail to understand is that,
    Everyone has a little bit of mommy and daddy in them, like red and white makes pink, a new color, and I am that new color. Only thing is, the genes of one parent out weights the other. You see, angels may transform, but I am who I am. I, myself am a transsexual-intersexual-natal/cis gender woman, so if God don’t make mistakes, and suppose he created me with a penis and a vagina, and I decide to lay or have sexual intercourse in marriage with a man who has a penis like I do, or if I decide to lay or have sexual intercourse with a woman who has a vagina like I do , I don’t see how I would be gay, wrong, or sinning. Or is it wrong also for a woman born with a vagina whose genetic chromosomes are XXY intersexual, to dress like a man or to dress like a woman and be attracted to woman? Gee’s, what would churches think of such a lady? Opps, I mean man, I mean woman, I mean both! What about women with huge penis size and penis looking clitorises as part of their vagina; Men who are orally attracted to them must really be gay huh? WRONG..
    The debate goes on as to whether or not the mind of a transsexual is female, making them intersexual, which obviously they are, since the genes of one father and a mother exists within their whole physical human being or body structure, and that’s evidence beyond doubt. There are many different types of intersexual, some of which are transsexuals- I am a woman, just a different type of classy woman. Homosexuality labels was man-made society and church created nonsense. To bad society and churches got caught up in stupidity, because perhaps they believe everything almost everything they read, rather than studying the Bible and testing the spirits- you know you love me, sadly said. God does not condemn transsexualism-intersexualism, He condemns homosexuality/gays/lesbians/bisexuals, anal sex, and cross dressers. But if you read between the legs of a true intersex being, you’ll know that the Bible and prophets and the corrupt side of society are inconsistent with what they teach. God don’t make mistakes, yet, God will correct the blinded, the crippled, those who were born as dwarf(s), the conjoint, those born in the wrong body, the ignorant… in the beginning. The tree of life of good and evil, and God knew and applied both to mankind, because is so holy.
    Some heterosexual men and women swearing by their graves, and gay, bisexual men and women, and lesbians, believe that transsexuals/or eunuchs are a worst form of being gay. Well then, why does the difference between sexual orientation and gender orientation exist? It’s obvious even the educated can actually be infested with total lies, misconceptions, and confusion that leave them greatly mistaken of others. Did you ever thought that the reason why many transsexuals are bisexual is part or the whole reason that one day perhaps they will run into someone who will bare a child for them before they can actually decide to get a sex change- Well its true. Transsexuals are women with differences in anatomy from other women- not every woman is the same indeed, since God is creative- through us He is also creative. Their spirit rules over their bodies, mind, and soul, so don’t try turning them into someone they are not, because it won’t work. It’ll only work if society rejects them until suicide becomes an issue, or until churches deliver the fear of God to them because church servants and slaves are repulsive of being corrected- their love and furious input fear in others don’t mix in expression toward us- only the fear and love in God can bring us closer to Him. Or, transsexuals might repent if they are promised a wife for their obedience, if that even exists, or perhaps evening repenting, because they were never a woman to begin with, like a few have, because of the guilt of something they couldn’t understand and continue to have a problem with who they are, perhaps because they suppress who they really are inside. So the inconsistencies, which really are lies due to someone lying, for example, the inconsistencies of the Bible or prophets being inconsistent with themselves or each other, mislead the weak transsexual, and almost all believers of this so called Christian faith. Transsexuals who are mislead by verses of the Bible and believe that so called power of the Bible/prophets/God, will suffer how unperfected Christians rule, convince, and teach they should live their lives. And by the way, I am a Bible believer, but will not follow man-made separation of “Christian branches” such as Catholics, Protestants, Evangelicals, etc. since they teach differently and are not in union with one body. The Jewish men kiss each other in Bible times. Moses wore Egyptian make-up, heels and skirts- Life is beautiful. Many parts of the Bible is a fantasy world. Don’t believe me? Google INCONSISTENCIES OF THE BIBLE.
    Transsexual women are intersexual. They are real men and real women. They are no longer living as man, because they are now real woman in spirit, mind, and soul (and people need to respect that, just the same way they want and need to be respected), just like you Christians changed the name of Yeshua, the name that has power to cast out the demons in you, into Jesus. It’s clear you Christians and churches like turning the truth into a lie. Here, let me create an a.k.a for you… your new name will now be, “CrazyDodos.”
    God don’t make mistakes, so would it make a man gay if he lies in bed or has sex in marriage with a transsexual-intersexual that was born with a penis and a vagina? ABSOLUTELY NOT- the truth shall set you free. Let’s see how many doctors and priests and rabbi’s ordered or opinion the mutilation of transsexual-intersexual, and I bet all of this and almost much of the truth I am saying in this article has been kept secret or hidden from the world and society in fear of a new revolution due to the truth. So how can you stand there and tell me I mutilate myself, like those who get castrated, or plastic surgery. Not everyone has plastic in them, especially once after SRS is done. Many people affiliated with churches are crazy like orthodox. They must be like, a traditional old fart and those that follow them. I’m not a Christian for Elohim’s sake; I’m a Citizen of Heaven- That’s my branch.
    I believe everyone should reconsider who we as transsexual women really are inside. After all, heaven is a matter within us.
    I am a butterfly and transgender fish, ironically speaking! Humans do what’s impossible for animals- We are God-like. No man must change what God has created, AND THAT’S IMPOSSIBLE, no matter what a person changes outwardly. Yet, we must improve who we really are inside and out from the core and foundation of our souls, and our ways of life to reflect that. So I went from male to female, yet, I am the same person in and outwardly in spirit, mind, and soul, and nothing was changed, I’m still a woman, and little less of a man, like the red and white= pink thing, so why complain. God knows my heart and mind, He knows that I’m a woman and live as such. And I express myself from inside-outwardly.
    (“Imagination does not become great until human beings, given the courage and the strength, use it to create.” By Maria Montessori August 31, 1870:
    The Italian educator Maria Montessori initially trained as a doctor, which was nearly unheard of for women at the time. She later studied psychology and developed her theories of early childhood education, which she put into practice with her Casa dei Bambini schools. Montessori education continues to be popular around the world).
    It is commendable that you try to do the right thing all the time. Yet, the Bible is clear that our good works do not justify us before God. For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. Romans 3:20 ESV
    Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes Him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. John 5:24 ESV
    18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. 1 Peter 3:18 ESV
    And in the blink of an eye He changed himself to who He really is/was before being born to human Jews in the human form, and took back the glory He left and once had in heaven before coming to die for us on earth, as it was written in Isaiah. In the blink of an eye He will change us too, and there will be no more ugliness and black and white or shadows of things, a human thing. Before that, he took the form of a human and a Jew and was unattractive the way the Bible teaches, but in heaven He is not a He or She or Jew or human, so what are some Jews or people so proud of, He was never a citizen of earth. He took his share in our sufferings. He never had sexual relations with a woman, because God doesn’t have sex with his children, brothers or sisters, like people claim Mary the prostitute did with this so called Jesus. And the sons of God who some believe are angel’s (fallen or not), never had sexual relations with the daughters of men, since God never called his angels sons of His, as written in the book of Hebrews. Besides, what makes a man or a woman (a penis and a vagina,) so how can angels have penises and vaginas (but not a penis or a vagina alone makes a person female or male in humans, because men and women mix,) unless they are men and women. God is the creator of all colors, perhaps colors we haven’t seen is yet to come.
    For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
    9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV
    God don’t judge appearance. And if Christians are not suppose to live like male or female according to the Bible, then stop worrying. I have faith, like a mustard seed that I am a woman, so how many people thought God was crazy for saying to have faith like a mustard seed and a mountain will throw itself into the sea if you told it to- Many. “If you are ashamed of me now, I will be ashamed of you.”

    • I forgot to mention…i find it laughable as most do when, a non believer like you starts quoting scripture (like you know something) and then “interpreting” scripture. Stick to what you know! You dont know scripture or my God (especially when you state ” so called Jesus”.

  15. The Church should make the distinction between carnal lust , immature desire, and the subtle planes of existense. Saying homosexuality is a sin is no different than saying heterosexuality is. I guess the church has never heard of contrasexual development. Get with it !

  16. Comment marked as low quality by the editors. Show comment

    Hit "report abuse" by mistake!

    Sorry! I meant to hit “more” to expand the above comment (July 29, 5:42 pm), but I hit “report abuse” instead. Please disregard that report.

  17. The general idea in our society of what the term, a gay person, includes would also include a person who has an identity and/or an orientation of bisexual. And yet we don’t consider Angelina Jolie to be gay, when she openly says that she is bisexual. She would probably say that she is heterosexual now in terms of her current sexual behavior. The person who experiences primarily same-sex sexual attractions, who would say that their orientation is bisexual, who is in a heterosexual marriage, might well say that their identity is straight. They could still be very open about their attractions being primarily gay, but that they are also sexually attracted to their opposite sex spouse.

    So, the phrase, gay people, is more complex to understand when someone uses it in a sentence. Pope Francis would not sidestep the idea that he would still see a same-sex sexual orientation as being disordered, meaning not consistent with the order that he sees God establishing for mankind’s sexual expression that would please God. Still the Pope is trying to communicate that he respects and wants to honor those that would disagree with his understanding.

  1. [...] Did Pope Francis change church teaching on homosexuality?Religion News ServiceAs far as church teaching, the pope said nothing that would indicate that there would be any change in the tenet that homosexuality is, as the Catholic catechism states, “objectively disordered.” Church teaching holds that because same-sex relations … [...]

  2. […] Granted, this teaching does come from 1995, and earlier teachings phrase it much more harshly, but we know that this teaching still stands. In 2003, the American bishops called for an amendment to “protect marriage“: to specifically name marriage as being between man and woman. In 2006, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops released the “Ministry to Persons with a Homosexual Inclination: Guidelines for Pastoral Care” and related how to lead homosexual parishioners into a moral lifestyle (read: chaste and non-sexual). And within the community of the faithful (of whatever faith you so choose), that’s all well and good. Personally, I prefer Pope Francis’ assertion of “Who am I to judge?“ […]

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