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NEW YORK (RNS) After years of tensions with various bishops, Priests for Life founder Frank Pavone has complied with demands to straighten out the group’s finances and to become accountable to his home diocese in New York.


    • Demonstrate by force of principle and logic that Pavone is corrupt. I was hoping you, Earold, wouldn’t fall into that trap that is the essence of contemporary liberalism: being judgmental about groups that liberals accuse of being judgmental, and possessing nothing of a coherent philosophy to underpin your judgments in the first place.

      Earold, yours above is but an emotional tantrum. You seem to have none of it for some glaring abuses by government officials we have elected.

      Come on, Earold, and return with some reasoned responses to issues.

      By the way, I’m glad that Pavone was forced to straighten out the books. That’s as it should be. Too bad we’ve nobody to force Congress and the administration to do likewise.

      • Ignorance trolling Duane again?
        Did you read the article before spouting off?

        Pavone’s own church was accused him of financial impropriety and tax fraud. The bishop of the region where the organization was formed leveled the accusations against Pavone.

        Pavone restructured the organization to avoid the hammer falling. Essentially the Catholic Church took direct control of the organization in light of the improprieties.

        So now you are defending tax fraud and embezzlement? I guess I was right. As long as you agree with their cause, you will support any kind of person. Regardless of their character.

        • Larry, you are the troll you accuse others of being. I said directly–can you read?– that I’m glad Pavone straighted out the books. Apparently whatever he did has not got him into trouble with the IRS here at home, and the Vatican exercised oversight–for a change.

          You read what you wish to read into what others write, and I accuse you of having a rather limited ability to correlate your “feelings” with what someone actually has said or written.

          As is your wont, you’d have the IRS come down on him and throw him in jail simply to satisfy your hate. That hasn’t happened so you turn your hate to anyone supporting Pavone’s mission.

          Let me make it simple for you, Larry: I support Pavone’s positions; I am glad that he’s cleaned up what required cleaning; I have no problem with the Vatican having voiced its concerns directly and through the American bishops.

          You an entrepeneur with your demonstrated limited ability to read and understand? Somehow I think fiction plays a large role in your perceptions.

          I remind you also that I defend your decision to provide healthcare to your employees, and I condemn any interference by the federal government in your decsion. Perhaps, however, your “management” is another fiction. Don’t know and don’t care; we’re arguing philosophical principles here–well, I am even though you never do.

          • Do you know what they call an embezzler who puts money back to the accounts they stole from?

            An embezzler.

            Pavone got Vatican oversight because they did trust his control of the organization. The fact that he did not get in trouble with the IRS (yet) tells us more about their lack of ability to enforce the laws and the opacity of the finances involved than anything else.

            You are more than willing to overlook impropriety as long as he squares it with the Church. Not much different than how the Church handles other forms of abuse.

          • Larry, if Pavone is an embezzler in the IRS’s mind, then it is up to them to pursue justice. I have no problem with that. It would seem, given Pavone’s place as a rather public figure, that “government” would already have gone after him.

            Perhaps you know embezzlement better than the government and can communicate your concerns and even give them in-service on the subject.

          • Yes it is a matter of the law and the church should have no business interfering with any such investigations, should they be leveled.

      • Duane, it is not my fault you were unable to understand both my principle, and logic. Maybe you need to clean the right wing fog from the inside the bubble in which you reside, so you can actually read the words I wrote, which contained no reference to Pavone.

        I had some hope for you Duane, as I recently saw a comment where you typed two whole sentences without using the word “liberal” once, but alas my hopes have been dashed.

        So, even though you went all ad hominem on me, calling my comment “emotional tantrums”, which by the way made me cry, lie on the floor, hold my breath and kick my feet, I’ve now composed myself and will try to give you the explanation you desire, although I owe you nothing.

        I am almost positive you know how I feel about the catholic church but let me just write a few things, so you may have no misunderstanding. You see I have principles, morals, and ethics that are diametrically opposed to this organization. They have child rapist and sexual molesters within it. They have known this for many years. Not only did they not stop this from happening and turn these criminals over to the law, they moved them from one parish to another to save the reputation of this church, giving these criminals fresh victims to abuse as well.

        Although I’ve suspected this has been known by the church hierarchy, I’ve always measured my words carefully because no evidence had been presented. This recently changed in Chi-town, and it is clear that it was at least was know to these bishops, and I still suspect much higher. Therefore I called it a morally corrupt organization, although this is just one reason, but one I hope you can find easier to comprehend.

        Now onto the Priests for Life; this organization is fighting against the very principle of the fourteenth amendment, that is American citizen have equal rights and protection under the law. Although it is legal under our laws, I do not like abortion, and would want those American citizens who choose to have it performed, not to have done so without thought. However, it is not for me, or anyone else to say what is right or wrong for a free American citizen to do what the law of this great country allows. They must deal with their choices, just like everyone else does.

        It is especially reprehensible for an organization based on superstitious belief, so full of judgment to itself judge; both hypocritical and immoral. There religious text tells tails of their god killing so many people, even children for simply making fun of a bald man, but they have the unmitigated audacity to point at these Free American citizens and say they are doing anything wrong. This organization has kindred spirits in other immoral organizations like the westborogh baptist church, and those muslim sects that want to force everyone in their country to follow sharia law, only theirs comes from the bible, a supposedly holy book full of atrocities, contradictions and fallacy, therefore I called it a morally corrupt organization.

        Perhaps my meaning can best be summed up in a simple phrase.

        Religion is poison!!

        • Earold, if I accomplished nothing else, I drew out more explanation from you of your positions, most of which I can understand and some of which I can agree with. Thanks.

          I agree with the tone of your comments about the Catholic Church, and I agree that these perverts should have faced justice. Where I disagree is your generalization from this that the Church is essentially corrupt. I say this as one raised in the Church who spent years in seminary, but has since distanced myself from active participation in it. That the conduct within the Church that was kept under wraps is scandalous and crippling to the Church in general, at least in this country and in Europe, all this is without question. It does not touch the essential doctrines that the Church holds and proclaims, however. I cannot ignore the fundamental truths.

          You’ll have to explain how the 14th Amendment impacts on abortion law. I don’t see it. I see an “expanded” reading of the Constitutiion giving cover to a nine-member gaggle of jurists cover for their rulings–well, at least majority rulings. If you want to talk about “equal protection,” perhaps you can explain what is equal in this protection as far as a fetus is concerned, especially one well along in its development. I know you are not in favor of abortion yourself, but I can’t understand what you see in the Amendment even to permit SCOTUS to justify it.

          And then there’s the “privacy” issue which the Warren court used in Roe v Wade. If privacy is paramount, then I should have the right to privately off an individual if I feel like doing so.

          I’ll say again what I’ve said elsewhere, Earold, concerning the horrors found in the Old Testament: Christianity is not much based on the OT. The Jesus of the New Testament gives an entirely different emphasis to the place of God in the lives of people and the relationships among people. What do you find superstitious there? Where’s the evil? Yes, there was the Inquisition, but what has that to do with the NT itself. Yes, it had plenty to do with that admixture of the state and the church in those times–which probably figured prominently among the Founders when they decided we didn’t need another country with an established religion.

          Radical Islam? Yes, it’s a would-be political force with an agenda foreign to most Muslims’ thinking. Islamist mullahs should be “taken out of service” and likewise their followers who’ve organized and led the gullible terrorists. Westborn is a small congregation, entirely devoted to its special brand of harrassment. We can conclude, thusly, that what Westborn does is the essence of Westborn. That can’t be said of the Catholic Church except in a small way in some of its parts. Abuse is not of the essence of the Church.

          Perhaps this latest exchange, Earold, finds us more in agreement than disagreement.

  1. Duane, “That the conduct within the Church that was kept under wraps is scandalous and crippling to the Church in general, at least in this country and in Europe, all this is without question.” You forgot a few other locations where sexual predators are feasting on their sheep while wrapped in wolf skin Duane, so I’ll fill them in for you. Africa, Asia, Europe, North America, Oceania, and South America. That pretty much covers most of the world. This is organizational wide.
    “It does not touch the essential doctrines that the Church holds and proclaims, however.” I would disagree, I believe it is mostly driven by the doctrine of celibacy for humans.

    “If you want to talk about “equal protection,” perhaps you can explain what is equal in this protection as far as a fetus is concerned, especially one well along in its development.” Equal protection for “American Citizens”, unborn have not yet reached this status, therefore do not have this protection, but the mothers do.

    As far as christians distancing themselves from the OT; if I were one, I would, as it is simply indefensible. However they have an issues with several of the NT verses like those found in Matthew 5 & 15, Luke 16, Mark 7, Timothy 3, and John 7 & 10.

    As far as your statement “Abuse is not of the essence of the Church.” we do have common ground. It is not the church that is abusive, it is religion itself. It is a fabrication created to control people, to keep them from thinking logically and with reason.

    Got to go make the donuts, have a good ay!

    Religion is poison!!

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