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A sin is an act of selfishness, it’s an act of destructiveness. A sin is something that fractures your relationship with your neighbor, that makes you smaller and more angry and more afraid...

Categories: Beliefs

Martin Elfert

Martin Elfert

The Rev. Martin Elfert is an immigrant to the Christian faith. After the birth of his first child, he began to wonder about the ways in which the Divine was at work in the world. Shortly thereafter, he joined Christ Church Cathedral in Vancouver, BC, where he and his new son were baptized at the Easter Vigil in 2005 and where the community encouraged him to seek ordination.

22 Comments

  1. Would an atheist not be allowed to worry that he had more of a desire to masturbate than to have sex with his wife, and what that meant for the marriage? It’s not the writer’s situation, but to say that no grown man should ever worry about masturbation goes a little too far.

    • Every man knows when masturbation has gone too far.
      You just know. You get tired of it and move on. Or you get in trouble.
      Every man knows this – without any input from a god or other celestial being.

      The fundamental claim that a supervising ‘higher’ authority is watching your masturbation (and judging you) is completely is immoral!
      There is no evidence of any such supervisor.

      Sex is a trivial matter in life. It is a healthy little bit of fun and relaxation.

      Yet religion uses it for its own purposes – like a virus!
      The church knows you are going to do it and it can’t wait! Because if they can get you to feel guilty you will come back to church and confess it all while leaving a little donation in the basket. Revolting!

      Every man and woman should deeply resent any ‘advice’ on what constitutes too much masturbation
      from someone WHO IS NOT A DOCTOR!

  2. You should at least give the complete quote…

    I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but I will not be mastered by anything. 1 Corinthians 6:12

    “I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but not everything is constructive. No one should seek their own good, but the good of others. 1 Corinthians 10:23-24

    • @ Frank

      Your right, it would’ve been better to include the latter parts so as to provide a wider scope of understanding.

      I was trying to simplify the matter. They still apply OK though.

      I like this latter part which I had forgotten about — “No one should seek their own good, but the good of others.”

      I’m gonna use that in other posts as an example of the ‘good’ verses that impact us in a positive way.

      • @Billysees,

        Your excerpt from Corinthians was fine.
        You DID appropriately simplify it – putting the verse ‘in context’ does not improve its meaning.

        We must acknowledge that we are deciding what is true and what is not.
        The Bible cannot be the authority if we are its editors.

        • @ Atheist Max

          “We must acknowledge that we are deciding what is true and what is not.”

          Agreed. If we’re to make things useful and practical for our own lives we ‘have’ to do it that way. Paul’s good comment or suggestion that we work our own salvation is excellent. He was probably referring to a spiritual kind of thing but I interpret that word salvation to include making decisions about what we are to become in this world. We all eventually have to make career choices or evolve into them.

          Also, whenever it is said to ‘work out our own’, that automatically encourages us to put our unique stamp of individuality into whatever we do.

          One of his other comments about ‘do the work of an evangelist’ is not so good at all. The vast vast majority of us rank-and-file would never want to do or even think about doing such things, neither would the ‘spirit’ lead us in that kind of direction. Respectively said, preaching is just a drop in the bucket.

          This world needs nurses, plumbers, taxi-drivers, doctors, engineers and a whole boat-load of other kinds of people and things and services and I’m sure the ‘spirit’ is busy making such people happen every day.

          “The Bible cannot be the authority if we are its editors.”

          But we’re not editing it though. It still stays the same.
          We’re simply ‘applying it as applicable’.

        • @Billysees,

          “But we’re not editing it..(the Bible)..It still stays the same.
          We’re simply ‘applying it as applicable’. ”

          I’m sure you have eliminated
          these verses from your bible:

          1. Homosexuality (Lev. 18:22) – i.e. All you gays are going to hell.

          2. Touching the skin of a dead pig (e.g.: playing football, etc.) (Lev. 11:7-8) – i.e. Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Ben Roethelisberger, Larry Fitzgerald, Tim Tebow, all NFL, college football, and high school football players are going straight to hell.

          3. Eating shellfish (Lev. 11:10) – i.e., All you people eating shrimp scampi or lobster tail are going straight to hell.

          4. Touching a menstruating woman and any furniture or clothing that has come in contact with menstruating women (Lev.15:19-21) – i.e. All you loving husbands who hold your wives and comfort them during their periods are going straight to hell.

          5. Planting two different crops in the same field (Lev. 19:19) – i.e. All you home gardeners planting tomatoes with peppers or cucumbers in your backyard, you’re going straight to hell.

          6. Wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (polyester blends not recommended) (Lev. 19:19) – i.e., Wearing Hanes underwear or t-shirts with those cotton/polyester blends will send you straight to hell.

          7. Getting one’s hair trimmed, especially around the temples (Lev. 19:27) – i.e., Getting that cool shaved head look will send you straight to hell.

          8. Approaching the altar of the Lord if you have poor eyesight (Lev. 21:20) – i.e., if you wear glasses or contacts and dare approach the altar with your prayers to the Lord, you’re going straight to hell. Now I”M GOING STRAIGHT TO HELL!

  3. “Life is a job. You get $14.50 a day, but after you die, you have to pay for your sins. Stealing a hub cap is around $100. Masturbation is 35 cents (it doesn’t seem like much, but it adds up). If there’s money left when you subtract what you owe from what you’ve earned, you can go to heaven. If not, you have to go back to work. (Sort of like reincarnation — many nuns are Mafia guys working it off.)”
    -Father Guido Sarducci

    • that is the most wrongful thing I have ever hered of the way you by your way into heaven is by the saviour Jesus an parsing him where in the world did you come up with masturbation is 35 cents hahaha I’m sorry an I’m not trying to be rude.but you can’t really mean this because if so you need to read the bible my friend

      • So do you. Under Leviticus 15:16-18, self discharge and that between a man and a woman are treated the same, i.e. no big deal, go wash it off. The 35 cent comment is an old joke from an SNL skit. Fr. Sarducci claimed we were given money and literally had to pay for our sins. Murder was a hundred thousand dollars, masturbation was 35 cents. It was a joke.

  4. @ Atheist Max 8/19 2:45 am

    “I’m sure you have eliminated
    these verses from your bible: 1 – 8″

    I haven’t eliminated anything.

    I simply choose not to consider them as I work out my own life and its future, and with the help of the ‘spirit’, that makes things happen, I should be satisfied with the results.

    Here’s where I get that encouragement —

    Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
    In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths……..Proverbs 3:5-6

    • @Billysees,

      Another thing:

      “Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths” (Proverbs 3:5-6)

      Isn’t this Divine permission for any decision which comes to you?

      We know from experience
      That “god’s intercession” on our lives is
      very hard to detect:

      Prayer:
      God’s impact is uncertain. Random outcomes are the norm.

      Wars:
      God’s impact is uncertain. Misery is certain and the bad guys often win.

      Disasters:
      God’s impact is uncertain. Innocent people often die.

      Religion:
      God’s impact is uncertain. He seems completely incapable of helping humanity figure out which of the thousands of claimed gods is the true god.

      Nature:
      The world operates without any discernible evidence of a god.

      So why would you expect your own mind to be a place where God’s impact would be discernible?
      Is it too fearful to consider you are doing this all by yourself?

      • @ Atheist Max (8/19 11:54 am)

        “Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths” (Proverbs 3:5-6)
        “Isn’t this Divine permission for any decision which comes to you?”

        — It is written somewhere that God will take care of those who put their trust in him. That’s what I’m doing here with these 2 verses. I’m assuming that he’ll help me to obtain good outcomes with any issue I bring to his attention through prayer or thought.

        “We know from experience
        That “god’s intercession” on our lives is
        very hard to detect:”

        — Yes and no. Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn’t. When his intercession is good, we’ll know it because we’ll be able to recognize it. Somehow we’ll sense its goodness in our lives.

        “Prayer:
        God’s impact is uncertain. Random outcomes are the norm.”

        — Maybe they are random. That’s why we should pray. Maybe we aught to pray our asses off to make sure he hears us and gives us a good answer. I’m putting some humor here of course. Prayer is like playing a ‘pray and wait’ game. It’s ‘fun-to-do’ because there’s this thing called hope involved and that makes for a ‘good and happy expectation’.

        “Wars:
        God’s impact is uncertain. Misery is certain and the bad guys often win.”

        — We can’t say that misery is certain, though it may only seem that way…sometimes. The bad guy often wins would be hard to prove I bet.

        “Disasters:
        God’s impact is uncertain. Innocent people often die.”

        — Agree. I don’t know why what you’ve said is true.

        “Religion:
        God’s impact is uncertain. He seems completely incapable of helping humanity figure out which of the thousands of claimed gods is the true god.”

        — Disagree. God chose this Jewish guy to represent him here on earth. He, though seemingly imperfectly, says and does many things to draw attention to himself as being a kind of ‘super-representative’ that point to a certain God he calls ‘our father who art in heaven’.

        “Nature:
        The world operates without any discernible evidence of a god.”

        — No way. Mother Nature is a great example of the existence of a creator.

        “So why would you expect your own mind to be a place where God’s impact would be discernible?”

        — Great question. Because I sense that he’s doing some good things for and with me every day.

        “Is it too fearful to consider you are doing this all by yourself?”

        — It does seem that I may be doing this all by myself. I express that as a personal thought of mine. I could get fearful that I’m spinning my wheels…but then ‘things’ happen to convince me that as the verse goes — We know that we live in him and he lives in us because he has given us his Spirit……NT

  5. @Billysees,

    “I haven’t eliminated anything. I simply choose not to consider them”

    1. Why do you have your OWN sufficient understanding to disregard God’s commands such as ‘kill homosexuals’?

    2. Yet you SAY you choose to “lean NOT unto thine own understanding.”
    (Proverbs 3:5-6)

    You are in fact leaning into your own understanding
    while using the bible to deny you are doing so!

      • @ Atheist Max (8/19 12:00 pm)

        “Thanks for giving these things serious thought.
        You deserve a pat on the back.”

        — Thanks for asking tough questions that compel me express myself in ways I would normally not do.

        You also deserve a pat on the back for encouraging people to think critically about the things in scripture.

    • @ Atheist Max (8/19 11:40 am)

      “1. Why do you have your OWN sufficient understanding to disregard God’s commands such as ‘kill homosexuals’?”

      — Good question. Thankfully, the ‘spirit’ he has given me is one that allows ‘discernment’ by me and for me and to be exercised by me and me alone. I’m able to recognize ‘stuff that doesn’t apply’ and it doesn’t matter what it is.

      “2. Yet you SAY you choose to “lean NOT unto thine own understanding.”
      (Proverbs 3:5-6)”

      — Another good question. But the answer here is similar to the same description I gave to answer your question #1. My understanding might conclude that I should recognize and accept and obey anything and everything that’s written in scripture. Thankfully, the “spirit’ that operates in me will not permit me to think that way. That’s a result of ‘working out my own salvation’ as I’ve mentioned before.

  6. You all seem to be hung up on the old testament laws. …John 13:34-35 ESV A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. (35) By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
    Christ came and established His New Covenant. At His death on the cross, the temple vail rent in twain. This was the vail that separated man from God. Christ then became our intercessor and His Holy Spirit or Comforter now abides within each of us who have accepted Him as our Saviour. This Holy spirit guides us, condemns us, keeps us in touch with His will, His ways and His desires. After the 4 gospels, we learn how to live and to become more like Him. As far as Homosexuals, their lifestyle is a sin according to God’s word, however, if the love of Christ abides in me, I cannot harm them or hate them, I must love them, but I also must tell them the truth of their choices. I am to love them and help them come to know Jesus Christ. Christ desires all to be saved John 3:16…”whosoever will”… As far as masturbation that is between the writer and God. If God convicts him of this act then he should not follow suit and commit the act. ….Philippians 2:12-13 ESV (12) Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, (13) for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

  7. I came across this article by accident, I’m not sure which denomination of christian these beliefs are coming from, I mean I’m just an evil catholic as many would say so my beliefs are a little oppositional, and I know that this is old but I’m just gonna say this anyways, MASTURBATION IS AN ATROCIOUS SIN! though the bible doesn’t outright say masturbation is a sin there are numerous passages about lust being wrong and to keep yourself from lustful temptations. What’s also an issue is that masturbation is addictive, addiction; something that takes you farther away from Christ! Seriously, this is a huge problem nowadays that’s being taken advantage of by the media. What’s pleasurable isn’t always right, Jesus didn’t take the easy way out and not suffer on the cross because of the pain or fear. BTW, I’m almost out of room to type and I’m getting more infuriated the longer i’m on this page so no second comment, but WHY DOES THE END OF THIS ARTICLE SOUND LIKE A DISGUSTING…

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